Hip/Pelvis position awareness

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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby sgarrozzo » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:42 am

HeluvaSkier wrote:
sgarrozzo wrote:HI Max I'm interesting in it! ...................... Anyone know this muscles?


Hint: It is a trick question.




Yes, I Know! Max is a bad bay! :D

so I'm quiet and silent.........................
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby jclayton » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:55 pm

Wouldn't it be better to think of pulling the outside hip back ? Especially if we are trying to keep the stance ski back at the first half of the turn and at times all way through the turn .
skinut ,among other things
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby rwd » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:49 pm

jclayton wrote:Wouldn't it be better to think of pulling the outside hip back ? Especially if we are trying to keep the stance ski back at the first half of the turn and at times all way through the turn .


Consider a classic phantom turn with balance on the stance ski throughout the turn. The only way to effectively achieve pelvic CA is to rotate the pelvis around the ball joint of the stance hip, using the gluteal muscles of the stance hip, so that the pelvis faces the outside of the turn. With correct pelvic rotation, the free hip will move ahead of the stance hip. If you are balancing completely on the stance leg, you cannot "pull back" the stance hip, only rotate the pelvis around it. Practicing the movement on dry land should clarify the movement.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby BigE » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:52 am

Pull the free foot back, allow the inside hip to rotate forward.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby cheesehead » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:45 pm

Max_501 wrote:
Ken wrote:push your inside hip forward, way forward


What muscles should he use to push the inside hip forward?

I use my abdominal muscles, I think. Don't ask me which one. Or is that the wrong answer???
--- aka John Carey
Madison, Wisconsin
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby robert5 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:49 am

I would like to give it a try on the 'push your inside hip forward, way forward' muscle question.

I think there is some involvement from muscles around the hip joint (gluteus minimus, gemellus (both), tensor f-l, even the big glutes! ?) but if feels to me (I just tried it at home) that the bulk of the movement comes from way down in the chain.
I guess tib/fib rotation which involves muscles much lower all the way to the ankle joint contributes more to this movement than the hip muscles themselves. (Both will impact inside hip moving forward in a bit different way).

As always, other muscles need to help (immobilize some dimension of the movement the muscle normally controls) to get the exact movement, this is probably more true of the hip joint muscles than ankle joint muscles which tend to be more exact.

I think of this as an example of kinetic chain working together in achieving the movement.
I also think that it is more of an academic question since the sensation is in the hip.

I am not expert on any of this, so take it with a grain of salt.

I have not been participating much on this forum, not since long time ago, but this question has intrigued me.
I have crashed this conversation a bit, sorry.
But then, I really did not say much, did I? Simple logical elimination: muscles involved need to be somewhere between what is moving (hip) and the skis. So the only thing I am postulating is that most of the stuff from hips down needs to be there to make this movement ;).

Robert
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby h.harb » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:46 pm

This is a highly complex area of the body. It involves muscles that rotate and turn the femur, attached to the back of the pelvis, muscles that attach to the pelvis, with opposite muscles on the other side. Also for CB the side muscles and spine ribs to hip connective muscles help with CB. Unilateral contraction of the psoas muscles causes rotation of the torso away from the side of contraction and sidebending toward the side of contraction (as if leaning to one side and looking over ones raised shoulder); abdominals assist that movement. The Quadratus Lumborum is also involved in CB to tilt the upper body.
http://resistancetraining.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/pelvic-girdle-and-psoas-muscles/



Image
Femur rotation is a totally different area of movement. The Gluteus Maximus moves the femur back under the hip, , the rotators of the femur under the pelvis are Gemellus Superior, Gluteus minims, Quadratus and Piriformus. They create the femur countering movements on one side.

Knowing all this is great, but it really doesn't help much, you still have to know how to move all this in unison and in some ways antagonistically to create CB and CA.

I have had plenty of massage therapists and physic therapists in classes before and many did not know how to create CB and CA on the correct side. They did know where the muscles were and what they were supposed to do.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby h.harb » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:50 pm

http://harbskisysems.blogspot.com

This is different from counter acting. The article explains Hip Counter balance. You can counter balance all day with your shoulders and arms , but unless your hips participate you will only get 30% of the benefits.
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