Hip/Pelvis position awareness

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Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby HighAngles » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:18 am

I know we have the hip-o-meter (affectionately dubbed the "dork-o-meter" by Geoffda :lol: ), but I'm looking for some other cues to build awareness of hip position. I skied with ToddW yesterday at LL and he pointed out that I'm still fighting to achieve the correct hip position in my turns. Are there any internal or external cues I can look for while skiing to better understand whether I have my hip movement correct?

Sorry if this has been hashed out before and I welcome any links to previous threads.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby jbotti » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:31 am

I think the best tool for this is dryland training using a mirror. If you spend enough time getting into the right position in front of the mirror (inside hip is above the outside hip) you start to notice what the correct position feels like. I'm also assuming that this is what you are talking about versus the appropriate level of hip CA. I will look for the best threads.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby geoffda » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:43 pm

jbotti wrote:I think the best tool for this is dryland training using a mirror. If you spend enough time getting into the right position in front of the mirror (inside hip is above the outside hip) you start to notice what the correct position feels like. I'm also assuming that this is what you are talking about versus the appropriate level of hip CA. I will look for the best threads.

This^^^. That is exactly what I did. Practice CA/CB in front of the mirror while you are brushing your teeth. It works wonders.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby Max_501 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:40 pm

Dryland all the way. I increased range of motion by a ton working in front of a mirror.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby jbotti » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:30 pm

geoffda wrote:
jbotti wrote:I think the best tool for this is dryland training using a mirror. If you spend enough time getting into the right position in front of the mirror (inside hip is above the outside hip) you start to notice what the correct position feels like. I'm also assuming that this is what you are talking about versus the appropriate level of hip CA. I will look for the best threads.

This^^^. That is exactly what I did. Practice CA/CB in front of the mirror while you are brushing your teeth. It works wonders.


Just in case anyone is wondering, you can also do this without brushing your teeth and it works almost as well :D
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby HighAngles » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:44 pm

Thanks for advice. I admit that I've only done the hip movement a couple times in front of a mirror just to see what it's like - not to actually develop the biofeedback to increase my awareness. Very good thoughts and I'll be getting right on it!
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby Max_501 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:51 pm

Stand in front of a full length mirror in tights so you can see your pelvis movement.

1 - arms/hands in a homebase position (in the beginning you could also do the angry mother)
2 - turn your feet/legs so they are 45 degrees to the right. This is a left footer (right turn). Now practice CA by rotating the pelvis to the left (the upper body will move too because its connected to the pelvis).
3 - switch and do the right footer
4 - when you can do it with flat feet add tipping.
5 - when you can do 45 degrees turn the feet/legs a bit more to increase your range of motion.

Note - don't let the hip get into goofy positions, keep the rotation around the head of the femur of the stance leg.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby h.harb » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:07 pm

Amazing results yesterday with a skier who was a big outside hip lifter and swinger (to the outside) to initiate the turn. These combined movements created a big top of turn skid (windshield wiper) which makes the skis finish across the falline. Remember the hips are hugely powerful mass, they can easily erase tipping, if used incorrectly. That's why it is absurd that TTS doesn't have CA in their systems. Skiing square is a load of Cr-----p.

Two things did it. Of course we came upon this after many tries with well established hip corrective movements, that didn't work as well. One solution was improved hand and arm positioning. this sounds so simple and easy, but it's not. I had to correct after every turn series. Pole drag finally made a huge difference. It's amazing how effective pole drag is for so many skiing mistakes. For example it helps CB, CA, Extension, flexing, and even fore/aft. If PSIA "only taught pole drag", nothing else, after level 5 in their system, they would be so far ahead of teh game, they would also have return clients. Don't tell them.

The other thing that helped hand and pole position was, if you create in your mind, two imaginary parallel lines running down the falline three feet apart. Start by making short turns, while keeping each hand and arm outside those two imaginary lines, works great. This combined with the stick between the hands, is hugely powerful. PMTS never stops inventing, better ways to learn skiing.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby Ken » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:01 pm

Max_501 wrote:Stand in front of a full length mirror in tights so you can see your pelvis movement.

1 - arms/hands in a homebase position (in the beginning you could also do the angry mother)
2 - turn your feet/legs so they are 45 degrees to the right. This is a left footer (right turn). Now practice CA by rotating the pelvis to the left (the upper body will move too because its connected to the pelvis).
.....

HA, for me, I use the feeling of pushing my right hip forward while pulling my right foot back in this right turn.

When you like the look in the mirror of your efforts, find the clues you can use to carry these movements to the hill.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby lukezhang » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:30 pm

Isn't it as simple as keep upper body facing down the slope?
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby Max_501 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:42 pm

lukezhang wrote:Isn't it as simple as keep upper body facing down the slope?


No.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby Ken » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:59 pm

HighAngles wrote:I know we have the hip-o-meter (affectionately dubbed the "dork-o-meter" by Geoffda :lol: ), but I'm looking for some other cues to build awareness of hip position. I skied with ToddW yesterday at LL and he pointed out that I'm still fighting to achieve the correct hip position in my turns. Are there any internal or external cues I can look for while skiing to better understand whether I have my hip movement correct?

Sorry if this has been hashed out before and I welcome any links to previous threads.

On easy turns where you can think of only the CA movement, push your inside hip forward, way forward, at the same time that you pull your inside foot way back. (Pulling the outside hip back works if it doesn't put you in the back seat--that's why I push the inside hip forward.) Push that inside hip way forward very early in the turn and hold it all the way forward. Feel the strain on that hip as it is pushed forward as your cue. As the movement becomes automatic, increase the steepness of the pitch and the quickness of the turns. Your upper body and arms follow your hips.

The PSIA seems to be of three minds about counter/counteracting. Either your ski into counter (can't counter early, 'cuz it crimps steering), or you ski "stacked" with the same angle of your ankles, hips, & shoulder, or you ski square with no counter. It depends on what year you get training and what year your trainer got trained. But, the PSIA is consistent about one thing--they NEVER explain why they do any of their stuff. Ask the biomechanical reason why they do what they do, and they look at you like you're a turd in the punchbowl.
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby Max_501 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:13 pm

Ken wrote:push your inside hip forward, way forward


What muscles should he use to push the inside hip forward?
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby sgarrozzo » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:58 am

Max_501 wrote:
Ken wrote:push your inside hip forward, way forward


What muscles should he use to push the inside hip forward?



HI Max I'm interesting in it! ...................... Anyone know this muscles?
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Re: Hip/Pelvis position awareness

Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:04 am

sgarrozzo wrote:HI Max I'm interesting in it! ...................... Anyone know this muscles?


Hint: It is a trick question.
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