Best deal on a carbon boots in history.

[h.harb]

While we still have a full range of (one, possibly 2 per size) in Dodge Carbon Boots; we are offering them at $749.00 with accessories like plates, intuition liners and footbeds at 30% off with the purchase. Normal fitting work will be included. Carbon ski boots are selling for between $1500 and $2500. So if you were ever pining for a Carbon boot, but the prices were to far beyond regular boots, here's the deal that won't last. Total retail value for this package with, canting plates, footbeds and liners is well over $2000.

These boots ski extremely well, with half the weight and bulk, they are high performance boots with a comfy fit and very warm with an Intuition liner, in the right size. I am offering them to forum members and regular customers first, before the message goes out to everyone. You can reserve a pair immediately if you call 303 567 0679.

[jbotti]

Wow, amazing deal!! If I didn't already own a pair I would be on the phone ordering one.

[Basil j]

I just got a new pair of customized boots in March myself, otherwise I would be on the phone right now.

[h.harb]

Everyone needs two pair of Dodge boots.

[wavestar]

Harald... What a deal, as a convert with 2 pairs I'll pass this on to skibuds asap.

[h.harb]

It's working. It's a great deal we are glad to offer it, we are already out of size 26, if you were thinking about it. Remember in Dodge boots 26 is closer to a 27 in all other boots, a 25 is often suitable for a size 8.5 or 9 foot.

[theorist]

May I ask if these are the '12-'13 or '13-'14 models? On Dodge's website they say they've made significant improvements for this season, but I couldn't find any info. on what those changes are.

[BillVT]

May I ask if these are the '12-'13 or '13-'14 models? On Dodge's website they say they've made significant improvements for this season, but I couldn't find any info. on what those changes are.

Hello Theorist.
The `13-14 models are available only directly from DODGESkiBoots.com or by special order through DODGE-Authorized bootfitters. The boots on special from Harb Ski Systems are `11-12 or `12-13 models.

Improvements for `13-14 can be found on the website (http://dodgeskiboots.com/boot_overview,new.htm) and include: revised geometry for smoother turn initiation; revised last for easier entry; new, lighter-weight powerstrap buckle; new liner with improved Lycra heel channel and instep snowcover; new fasteners for easier cuff adjustment.

Also check http://DodgeSkiBoots.com to learn about factory-direct purchase incentives.

[h.harb]

If anyone is interested in the 13-14 models we can special order them, and have them fit at our shop. This comes with the Harb Ski Systems alignment and fitting protocol incorporating dynamic alignment methods based on PMTS skiing and movements. Obviously the prices for the 13-14 models are not the special deals being offered here on the 12-13 models. However the molds are not different, carbon still skis and holds like "The Dickens" and we offer the warmest most comfortable liner with the boots, the "Intuition" used by NCAA GS Ski Champion racer, Jeremy Elliot and most of our coaching staff. This liner fits in all boots, so if you are looking for warmth and comfort there is none better.

[Max_501]

revised geometry for smoother turn initiation

What changes were made with the hinge geometry?

[h.harb]

I know there has been some pivoting or location changes of the hinges, to reduce the lateral stiffness effect on certain snow, but I'm not sure it solved the issues with Carbon materials on hard steep ice. As of my 12-13 models this was still a type of skiing I was working on with the boots.

The boots work great in all other conditions, few skiers are trying to hold an edge on 40 degree ice slopes at 40mph, so for almost every other skier than maniacs like us, trying to carve lines on 40 degree slopes, this little issue will never appear. It's one of the best off pistes boots I've ever skied.

[BillVT]

revised geometry for smoother turn initiation

What changes were made with the hinge geometry?

Max.
Most boots are designed so the knee tracks to the outside as you flex forward. This was first done quite a few years ago as a way to compensate for the inherent lateral deflection tendencies found in most boots. In other words, because most boots don't have sufficient lateral stiffness, they deflect when the edge is loaded, thereby lessening your edge angle. The "fix" (or band-aid) that manufacturers came up with was to design the boot geometry so the edge angle increased as you pressed forward and compensated for the boot's tendency to decrease the edge angle.

The carbon fiber DODGE isn't victim to the lateral deflection weakness of "rubber" boots. This is a big reason why DODGE skiers find they are able to maintain a consistent edge angle throughout the turn with far less effort. And why they are far less tired at the end of the day, too. ( One added bonus that two ex-US Ski Team racers/coaches told us is their worn out knees are far less tired from lateral loading using their DODGE Boots than when they used "rubber" boots and that they don't have to gulp handfuls of ibuprofen after skiing on the DODGE Boots like they did with their old boots.)

So, the DODGE doesn't deflect laterally like "rubber" boots. But, up until this year's boot, we (like other boot designs) incorporated a knee tracking path like "rubber" boots that actually increased the edge angle as you pressed forward. (For a skier like Harald who really pressures the front of the boot when he skis, that knee tracking was effectively increasing his canting angle by 0.5 degrees or more.) We felt it made the boot too aggressive, especially on steep, icy race conditions.

For the `13-14 boot we revised the geometry so the knee would track straight ahead, thereby maintaining a consistent edge angle as you pressed forward. The end result is a boot that is far more predictable throughout all stages of the turn.

Hope that answers your question.

[h.harb]

Clarification on front of the boot pressure: I can pressure the front of a boot, if I want to or need to, but that's not how I ski. If I am carving on a steep icy slope, there are points in the arc where forward hip positioning is crucial, (that's how you achieve effective forward pressure) this is how I apply pressure to the tip of the ski, through hip over the boots position, Not by pressuring the front of the boot, "exclusively". With your hip forward it allows you to pressure the front of the boot, if you need to feed the tip more into the arc. This is at very crucial time in the arc, not all the way through and definitely not all the time, because your tails would break loose in these situations. There is definitely a point in the arc where the front of the ski needs to bend and cut into the ice, put as soon as it does, you have to back off and move to the middle and increase the tipping angles, not add more forward pressure.

Just a technical clarification of how you ski and hold on steep ice.

[BillVT]

Harald, I didn't mean to imply you always pressured the front of the boot when you ski. For sure, having skied with you I know first hand that move your pressure where/when it's needed. But, when you DO pressure the front of our "old" boot, the geometry/knee tracking would make your edge angle more acute than when your pressure was centered. And, having witnessed you first hand, I can say when you DO pressure the front of the boot it's more than most others.

[theorist]

Thank you, Bill and Harald, for taking the time to provide those detailed explanations.

Just to summarize for my own understanding: On the outside ski, a plastic boot deflects medially when put up on edge, which lessens edge angle; to compensate, the manufacturers offset the hinges to make the boots track laterally. On the older Dodge boots, there is also lateral tracking but, without the medial material deformation to compensate, edge angle is increased when the boot is pressured. In practice, this is principally an issue at initiation on steep, icy terrain, where the tracking causes the angle to increase a bit too abruptly. This is much less of an issue on softer snow, because of the latter's compliance.

Bill, I'm curious about the implications of this for the inside ski. At least in principle, this would seem to give Dodge boots an advantage over plastic: On the inside ski, a plastic boot deflects laterally when put up on edge (once it's pressured), which lessens edge angle; unfortunately, here the lateral tracking offset will, instead of compensating, further reduce edge angle. The new Dodge boots will not have this issue (and the older ones will have less of an issue, because they'll have the lateral offset but not the lateral deflection). But how much effect will this have In practice, since the inner boot is not pressured as much as the outer one? [I should add I'm assuming here that it's not a good thing to have reduced edge on the inside ski, but maybe that's not the case....]

Also, and please forgive my curiosity (it's in my nature ), what was the design rationale for including this lateral tracking in the first place? I'm assuming that you were aware of this issue, at least in theory, from the start, and probably also checked it with some prototypes. Is it that this issue is a subtle one that didn't initially reveal itself in practice, or did you think there would be some advantage to an earlier edge?

[Just to avoid any confusion, I'm using medial and lateral in standard anatomical sense: lateral means away from the center of the body, medial means towards the center.]