Footwork in PMTS

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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby h.harb » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:16 am

And while you are at it, get some soft boots so you can flex the boots, while you are lifting your foot. This discussion reminds me of Epic chatter that never ceases and nothing is resolved, waste of time.
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby h.harb » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:28 am

MAx501 and jbotti said it once or twice and that should be all that's needed. All of the movements written for PMTS, which is correct skiing, activate the muscles you need to ski well, either directly or in co-operation with Primary Movements.

If you want to try to think and fill your head with the minutiae of every insignificant action, go ahead. In my experience most skiers can "barely" keep up with the movements that are most important while skiing.
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby cheesehead » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:47 am

As to whether I feel I am somehow physically gifted, well thanks. I don't get told that very often. Perhaps never. And I never suggested deviating from PMTS just trying to find ways to accomplish it.

I was saying that I was having difficulty pulling back because I was extending my ankles (tensing my foot and pushing my toes down). I believe that is wrong. Focusing on flexing my ankle has allowed me to pull back with my hamstrings without falling forward. In addition flexing my ankle actively seems to keep me from rolling my ankle which prevents me from doing a phantom move.

So, I gather from what you are telling me in your oh so subtle way is that I should achieve ankle flexion by relaxing my foot and ankle NOT by ACTIVELY flexing it. Got it.

Hopefully, that is the difference from Epic -- a problem was seen and corrected without too much BS, I hope.
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby h.harb » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:13 am

My quote for the week.

"If you want to continue doing what you are doing and you're still skiing the same, why are you on the PMTS forum?
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby h.harb » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:17 am

Cheesehead, about my comments, don't know why you took this personally, it wasn't directed at you!!!! It was directed at the thread. This ground and material has been covered ad-infinitum.
From the latin for, over and over and over.


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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby Ken » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:53 am

Dorsiflexion, plantar flexion, etc., also cause tense muscles in the feet. Tense feet cannot make small adjustments and don't have the feel for what's happening underfoot. We probably all ski better with relaxed feet and limit movements to hamstrings, ankle inversion (tipping), etc....the Primary Movements.

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I've found the PSIA recommendations for dorsiflexion to get the body forward and plantar flexion to pressure the tips to be effective....about 0% to 0.1% effective. :wink: Yeah, press down on the front of your foot like you press down on a gas pedal to get the fronts of the skis engaged in the snow..... :lol:
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby HighAngles » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:17 pm

Ken - please note that plantar and dorsiflexion are identified as primary movements on page 31 of the PMTS Instructor Manual. There is a note though that plantar and dorsiflexion are directly "connected" to foot pull back (which uses the hamstrings). So one could argue that the foot flexion is passive and a result of our fore/aft movements in PMTS.
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby h.harb » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:07 pm

Plantar and dorsi flexion alone will never make you a great skier. If you don't have it, you will suffer, but it's not the answer. Kind of like Aflac.
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby HighAngles » Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:21 pm

So I spent some time on this today - mostly to build a better awareness of what I'm doing. Ran into HH on the mountain and let him know that I was working hard on my dorsiflexion to help get me forward. :wink:

Anyhow, I got "in touch" with what my feet are doing and found a couple things. First, if you actually try to relax your foot at the apex of the turn it feels like you might break your ankle if you happen to hit some questionable snow. This is not a good place to "relax". You need some functional tension in your foot to deal with the increasing pressure as the turn builds. However, what you don't want to do (which I found myself doing every now and then) is plantar flexing at the apex (getting up on the ball of the foot). As Harald pointed out on the slope, this movement will set you back on the skis and make your work to get forward at the transition even harder.

What I settled on was more focus on my balance movements; fore/aft with the foot pullback (hamstrings) and lateral/CB (obliques and inside hip raise). When I can actually get both balancing movements correct I find that I can actually ski. :D
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby Max_501 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:12 pm

HighAngles wrote:First, if you actually try to relax your foot at the apex of the turn it feels like you might break your ankle if you happen to hit some questionable snow. This is not a good place to "relax". You need some functional tension in your foot to deal with the increasing pressure as the turn builds.



I agree completely with this.
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby HighAngles » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:58 pm

So I've been actively working on improving my footwork through awareness of the pressure on the bottom of my feet. I've found that I have to actively dorsiflex to ensure that I'm not on the balls of my feet in the turn. Being on the balls of my feet allows the skis to "get away" from me in the last 1/3 of the turn and makes even more work for me in the pullback at transition.

So I'm starting to wonder if my issue is from poor movements or if I might have a fore/aft stance alignment issue in my boots. If I were to experiment with my alignment would you think that I need to be more upright or more forward with the forward lean setup of my boots? Or is this something that really needs on-snow determination (of course there's plenty of video of me on here to evaluate too).

I just don't recall any discussions in PMTS about major dorsiflexion movements being prescribed, but maybe I'm missing something.
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby Max_501 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:53 pm

HighAngles wrote:I just don't recall any discussions in PMTS about major dorsiflexion movements being prescribed, but maybe I'm missing something.


It sounds like you are using the boost in dorsiflexion effort to compensate for hips that are too far back. Try adding more pull back/hold back from start to finish.
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby Kiwi » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:27 pm

Dorsiflexion is necessary, however, I really think about it when I ski. I work on both one footed pullback at transition and holding this as necessary through most of the arc. Toward the end of the arc, prior to and at the start of transition, the one footed pullback developes into stronger two footed pullback to recenter me forward.
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby h.harb » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:22 pm

Dorsi flexion is OK and works when lifting the ski and helps to hold the foot back, but it can not recenter your hips. PSIA is using this movement to tell skiers how they can recenter (get forward) and that is just hog wash.
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Re: Footwork in PMTS

Postby jbotti » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:17 am

There are two easy things you can do produce some more forward lean in your boots. First is add spoilers in the rear. I ski with double spoilers all the time. If you don't ski with them start with one and you can try two. Second you can add a 5mm plate under your boot heel. Both of these help me quite a bit but most people aren't my height and don't have femurs as long as mine. As well this set up helps but if I don't pull my feet back I will still be back. There is no substitute for that.

Also bear in mind that for most skiers forward lean is somewhat problematic and often causes and or pushes people into the backseat because they are too forward and they resist it.
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