If skiing was this instantly available.

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If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby h.harb » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:46 am

How many key pieces are missing in this video? I know this is Whistler or Blackcombe so Irwin might know this guy.
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby CO_Steve » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:46 pm

And now our video about how to win an F1 race.

Go Fast.
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby Ihamilton » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:47 pm

From a teaching point of view, compare this to Harald's two footed release segment, posted elsewhere on this forum. Harald talks about movements and explains what movements are required to ski like he does. There are few movements discussed in this video and what is discussed is incorrect, for example, "move your knees side to side." This may seem small but it is a huge difference to focus on tipping your feet from the bottom of the foot than to turn by focusing on moving the knees. Note in Harald's video that in the stationary segments he moves both feet, which is how we go down the hill. In this video, only one foot is moved in the stationary segment. In one segment of this video, the narrator says not to change weight from side to side, just focus on balancing with no explanation of how to do that. That is typical of CSIA teaching, figure it out yourself. In my view there was a weight shift when moving the knees, so an example of don't do as I say, do as I do. As a student and during instructor training I always found this frustrating.
As to the skiing, it is shorter to point out what he does do correctly and that appears to be the no swing pole plant. Note there is no foot pull back so he his back. The CA is off so he is inside. His tipping is not much more than that required to stand on a slope. Where he is tipped more than that it is because he his inclined. He rotates, as the turn develops his inside hand goes away from the skis. Flexion and extension is hard to spot because of the shallow slope but there are some definite up movements at transition when he is on the steeper slope.
He skis a very Canadian style. I can watch this type of skiing and teaching all day. Where would I start him? A stationary tipping drill such as Harald demonstrates on a green slope. IF, he tips his feet starting with the inside foot, THEN he will be able to balance on the skis edges and the shape of the skis will make them turn and he can focus just on balancing on the edges.
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby Basil j » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:48 pm

As a newbie I see some good things here and some non PMTS issues here. First good things:
Nice edge angles that match between skis.
Minimal extension, I try to watch the skiers shoulders and he stays down, for the most part. I did see some flexing happening.
Minimal swing pole plant.
I saw on some turns the inside leg definetly starts the next turn with some "o" action at the knees. This leads me to believe that he is pushing his inside knee towards the hill to start the next turn.
Non PMTS issues:
Inside foot gets ahead of the outside foot. almost to the point of of pushing his outside Knee into the back of his inside knee.
This leads to his "sitting" thru his turns. His boots are almost always ahead of his body and hips,
Inside hand drops after pole plant
I see what I perceive as counter action, but I think that he his hip is down on the inside because he is sitting down. His inside hip is lower than his outside hip.
Let me know if I am on course or way off. I am trying to train my eyes on what to look for so I can improve my own skiing.
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby milesb » Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:56 pm

Basil, don't watch the shoulders for extension, watch the knees and thighs.

BTW, "moving the knees" is a rotary movement, the edging is a secondary result. This is the opposite of PMTS movements- we directly tip the skis with the feet.
YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH78E6wIKnq3Fg0eUf2MFng
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby Kiwi » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:17 am

Hi Basil, I think there is a well disguised extension to initiate the turn because the first movement is not a flexion of the stance leg but an extension of the inside leg, agree that the big toe of the old inside leg is dominant. Milesb's advice is the way to check. Some hip dumping round it out, I think you said sitting in the turn. The counter balance type position is exactly that a contrived position and not really a proper ""movement". It is not generated in response to developing lower body angles. When everything follows tipping as in PMTS the body movements are not so digital or static but more fluid. MAX 501 or Harald's two footed release utube videos show what I mean,I think.

Moving the knees sideways is an odd concept because the knee doesn't really move sideways but normally only in the fore and aft plane, sagittal plane, so for that concept to work the skier's actual mechanics to initiate the turn must be different ie trying to turn his feet or dump his hip to initiate the turn in actual skiing.

In MA the eye will see the movement disconnects as stop start or forced etc sometimes it's hard to work out the mechanics employed, but have learned to trust my eye. I look to see the initiating movements of the transition ie is there a flex to release ? then I work through the Max 501 checklist. Fore aft balance as a movement I find hard to see but the lack of it shows up in the skiing.
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby Basil j » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:45 am

I have a long way to go....
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby Basil j » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:54 am

This end of this video of Harald clearly shows flexing and tipping vs vs extension and "rolling. I have to imagine losing extension will be a challenge since it is so ingrained in muscle memory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... RYj1a69u2k
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby emakarios » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:27 am

I watched the video several times last night, both at regular speed and freezing the frames. From my level of PMTS training and experience, I would call this guy's skiing "high level TSS skiing on easy terrain". He obviously has trained hard to make "simultaneous parallel movements". The extension movement in transition is subtle most of the time and sometimes I saw tipping beginning with the new LTE and sometimes with the new BTE. His inside ski was consistently ahead of his outside ski in most turns. The active rotary movements seemed subtle and I am guessing it came from the knee "tipping (drive)" movement. A couple of times I saw a stem early in the turn, but not on every turn. If I was his PMTS coach, I would take him to steeper terrain and have him make very short radius turns and see what the video revealed.
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby emakarios » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:29 am

My earlier post:
" His inside ski was consistently ahead of his outside ski in most turns" To clarify, I saw his inside boot and ski forward of his stance boot and ski. I was not referring to his tipping movements, which showed some variation in timing.
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby geoffda » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:18 am

IMO, it doesn't matter whether the extension is subtle or well disguised because *any* extension means that he is getting his angles by pushing off. I don't think that he is ever executing real tipping movements in transition. He is clearly a big-toe-dominant skier and he never leads with LTE tipping. I think there are a few turns where the timing works out so that things *look* more simultaneousl, but IMO that is just an accident. It looks to me like he pushes off on every turn, trying to get up and over to land on that big toe edge. Alignment on the right foot looks to be weak. You can really see it when he is in the yellow pants. On turns to the right, he is trapped on his BTE and he has to stem the left ski to get the turn started and then crank with his knee to get the right foot moving to LTE. With a skier like this, I think the movement pattern is so ingrained that addressing alignment first would be critical. And somebody needs to teach that guy how to get FORWARD! What is it with the Canadians and being trapped in the back seat?
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby skijim13 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:30 am

There are many key essentials missing from from his skiing. However, since the object of the drill was rolling the ankles on and all edge the fact that his inside ski is forward doing his turns and not under his hips, it limits his ability to tip to the LTE.
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby h.harb » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:17 am

IMO, it doesn't matter whether the extension is subtle or well disguised because *any* extension means that he is getting his angles by pushing off. I don't think that he is ever executing real tipping movements in transition. He is clearly a big-toe-dominant skier and he never leads with LTE tipping. I think there are a few turns where the timing works out so that things *look* more simultaneousl, but IMO that is just an accident. It looks to me like he pushes off on every turn, trying to get up and over to land on that big toe edge. Alignment on the right foot looks to be weak. You can really see it when he is in the yellow pants. On turns to the right, he is trapped on his BTE and he has to stem the left ski to get the turn started and then crank with his knee to get the right foot moving to LTE. With a skier like this, I think the movement pattern is so ingrained that addressing alignment first would be critical. And somebody needs to teach that guy how to get FORWARD! What is it with the Canadians and being trapped in the back seat?


Geoff, Great MA and right on the money. One thing that has not been mentioned so far, is his knocked kneed side, it always drops the knee into a slight "A" frame. It's subtle on easy groomers but at higher speed and steeps this will be a major deterrent to his high level releasing ability.

I'd like to mention again what Geoff pointed out in this MA. There is no such thing as a "good or passible slight push off". Even if it looks like the hips stay level. If this is your default movement pattern, you are going have to use it more and make the extension bigger on difficult terrain, where it will truly show up and interrupt turn connects. The result is you are going to be late to achieve balance over the skis for the new turn and cause a hard hit to slow down the skis to start a new push off.

He says during his instruction piece, "Use your ankles to dig your edges into the snow, this is flat out incorrect, you don't dig in anthing when you ski. You tip your feet and ankles and that tips your boots and skis, then the skis will hold an edge. Notice how he never leads into his new turn with the releasing ski into and toward the new little toe edge. That is because he doesn't have a releasing ski, he has a push. If you use a push you are not releasing the old stance ski, you are moving your Cg up hill.

He's also really tentative over his skis, and shows lack of balance; his misunderstanding of movement concepts are the reason. He's basically, a weak skier and I don't have to see him ski difficult terrain to see this. Any of our top 3 Super Blue groups ski far better and use better movements.
This is typical TTS skiing, this skier is actually trying to ski with the TTS movement, rather than athletically, which makes him look shaky (even with TTS movements as his base, it would service him better to ski athletically, with energy). Most TTS skiers who move to higher levels with this approach have to be really good athletes, because the technique is so contrived.

I think he is trying to move his legs side to side properly, but his understanding of how it's done is backward. At every level and step of the progression there are this kind of technically destructive mine fields in TTS. It's amazing they have not noticed this in 20 years of bad skiing. PMTS can begin to fix this in a few short hours, and reverse the damage.
Image
Here in this frame he shows what happens when using the technique he recommends and using the knees instead of moving with the feet and ankles.

The way he skis, it's obvious he is totally devoid of balance awareness, he doesn't realize he is out of balance and that he has major alignment issues that drop his knees inside. If this guy ever came to a Blue Camp, he'd leave skiing twice as well as he does now. He has no business giving out information about skiing on the internet!!!!!! This is the state of the art in ski instruction?? Ouch!!

If you read and understand the last post I put up in "Truth about PSIA" it describes and fits into the reasons why this guy skis how he does.
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby h.harb » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:40 am



Compare the tipping movements in this whole video, but especially at the beginning and starting at 2:40 on the cat track, to the instruction from the other video.
It's night and day, because I'm using the opposite movements he teaches and explaining why.
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Re: If skiing was this instantly available.

Postby skijim13 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:09 am

This a example of Level III PSIA skiing standards for short turns
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