It's a balance sport

[geoffda]

Here's a related gem.... Inclination. The CSCF make a big deal about the turn consisting of two components... inclination followed by angulation. They then teach that the goal of the skier is to create pressure higher in the turn so that the skier does not use only the lower C for direction/speed control.

Anyone see the problem here?

They are asking the skier to do the impossible. Inclination removes weight and balance from the outside ski so that pressure can come only late in the turn.

Only counterbalance can provide what the CSCF is asking for. Sadly, they don't know this term... maybe it's the "balance" part that is so confusing?

The issue is that at the elite level, when on the race course, skiers often get so much energy when they release that they often can't counter-balance fast enough to NOT be inclined at the top of the turn. However, in those cases, the forces are there for them to balance against and they don't end up on the inside ski. So coaches see that and they confuse it with technique. Yes, at the very highest levels, skiers may sometimes show some inclination prior to angulation (counter-balance), but it isn't because they are trying to incline. The best are trying to counterbalance! Counterbalance is technique. Inclination is just the residual of technique less than ideally executed.

The problem is that when you take away the skill that generates the kind of release forces that produce inadvertent inclination, following the advice of "incline then angulate" ends up producing out-of-balance skiers that lean in on every turn. This is a classic case of trying to mimic the "look" or output of world class skiers instead of focusing on the inputs or movements that produced that look. Form follows function, not the other way around.

[acali]

The issue is that at the elite level, when on the race course, skiers often get so much energy when they release that they often can't counter-balance fast enough to NOT be inclined at the top of the turn. However, in those cases, the forces are there for them to balance against and they don't end up on the inside ski. So coaches see that and they confuse it with technique. Yes, at the very highest levels, skiers may sometimes show some inclination prior to angulation (counter-balance), but it isn't because they are trying to incline. The best are trying to counterbalance! Counterbalance is technique. Inclination is just the residual of technique less than ideally executed.

The problem is that when you take away the skill that generates the kind of release forces that produce inadvertent inclination, following the advice of "incline then angulate" ends up producing out-of-balance skiers that lean in on every turn. This is a classic case of trying to mimic the "look" or output of world class skiers instead of focusing on the inputs or movements that produced that look. Form follows function, not the other way around.

Does this explain why racers and good skiers don't necessarily have low horizontal separation of their legs?
That they are making the proper movement to manage the inside foot but the forces are so high that they "look" like they are trying to keep their feet apart?

[BigE]

Nice post geoff! I agree completely. Inclination is a by-product or artifact it is not an outcome of it's own.

[geoffda]

Does this explain why racers and good skiers don't necessarily have low horizontal separation of their legs?
That they are making the proper movement to manage the inside foot but the forces are so high that they "look" like they are trying to keep their feet apart?

It is more about timing than forces. If you are just out arcing turns, you can control the bottom of the arc and the release to allow the skis to track back to the original stance width by the time you are neutral (i.e. Power Release drill). Depending on course set-up or line choice (intentional or otherwise), racers may not have that luxury. They may have to get from one side to the other extremely quickly in order to make a gate. So if you have large vertical separation and you quickly release a loaded ski, most of that vertical separation will immediately get converted to horizontal separation and stance is going to widen in transition. At which point some coach is going to take a picture in order to prove that racers ski with a wide stance.

When you have extreme release forces to work with, the wider stance isn't such a big deal. Even if the feet are outside the femoral sockets, the release forces will pull the hips across and outside the base of support so they can drop down and into the new turn. It isn't ideal, but for those with "World Cup feet" and/or the know-how to get back on top of their edges, it is usually workable. The trouble happens when those forces don't exist. In that case, the only option is for the skier to push off the new stance foot in order to forcibly move the hips across. This is an issue because it kills tipping, slows down the turn entry, prevents carving the high C, and often results in the skier pushing themselves out of balance. Even top World Cup skiers sometimes find themselves in this position and it often results in significant time loss. You have to be extremely skilled to make a clean turn starting with a wide stance.

For skiers who are not yet capable of generating those kind of forces, the "widen your stance" advice is crippling. PMTS teaches a super-narrow stance to intermediates and below because it facilitates tipping. Even a "functional" stance where your feet are hip width is (relatively) less ideal for tipping. It is still perfectly possible, but you have to have a higher level of understanding and movement proficiency to make it work. For lower level skiers, widening the stance is the most sure-fire way of ensuring that they will never become high level skiers. If you never learn how to tip, your only other alternatives are rotation, steering, and park and ride.

So yes, racers are often in the position of having wide stance at transition, but it often isn't by choice and you will see them pull it back together as soon as they can. There are cases where widening stance is valid advice to give--particularly in skiers who are platforming (pressing their knees together). However, once skiers learn how to tip, stance width will generally no longer be an issue as they will naturally seek a functional stance width appropriate for whatever kind of turns they are making.

[federico]

Very well analyzed Geoff.

See you next november.

Fed

[BigE]

goeff's on a roll!!! Great posts!