Off piste - technique and tactics

[cheesehead]

Mank?? What is that?

I could ask the same thing about "powder" -- never seen it but I have heard of it

We have been blessed (here in Wisconsin) with actual March skiing -- last year, there was a meltdown after March 8 and it was 80 degrees by St Patrick's Day. This year, we have had 11th highest snowfall over all, and most of it in February. We got 4" yesterday, and the temperatures are supposed to stay below freezing through the weekend. After that, I would guess spring will be here but Tyrol might be open one more weekend.

[Max_501]

Mank?? What is that?

Heavy, gloppy, challenging snow.

[h.harb]

Many will say, " a skier is sitting back" in Off Piste skiing. Not the case, at times you have to let the skis go on steeps and in crud, (flex and let go) so you can tip the skis without pressure on them. If you know you can let go and keep tipping, you will be right back into a good controlled arc that will keep your speed in check. This takes practice on medium slopes in powder or deep crud. No one ever learned this by going to the top of "High Rustler" to learn it.

[NoCleverName]

Well, just got back from Wildcat this morning where I got a pretty good beating

Actually, when there wasn't too much icy-trough-then-pile-of-snow going on I was able to bring into play some of the suggestions in this thread. Mainly tip pressure, aggressive tip-to-release just using pmts aggressively, etc. Some segments went pretty well, others not so much. I was falling a bit into the trap of upper body rotation so I tried the old pole tip drag drill in foot-high crud. Exhausting but profitable.

In the times I could actually see a ways ahead I did let speed be my friend and that helped along with just keeping activity more compact. I could definitely sense when CA/CB broke down there were dire consequences so I have been put on alert to watch for this in the future.

And, quite a bit of the "be confident in your technique" was needed, too!

So, not bad ... even though I could only go a few hundred yards at a time due to being old and the stupid meds. Maybe a good thing so as to reevaluate often during the run.

Oh, by the way, ran the TT800's.

Then, too, there's the "no mercy" Wildcat quad which gets you up 2100 feet in less than 7 mins. Can't they slow that thing down?

[h.harb]

What no more gondola? That thing was a death trap, but nothing ever happened, can't say that for Vail on their lifts.

[h.harb]

Even in the areas where the best "off piste" skiing is available, the instructors at that area, like at all other areas, will teach you to steer your legs and twist your skis. This keeps the skis flat, because steering and twisting has never produced an angle to the snow for the skis. ( they never saw a skidding ski tail they didn't like) It does however produce a flat ski that keeps skiers skiing slowly and grinding away at their turns.

[NoCleverName]

What no more gondola? That thing was a death trap, but nothing ever happened, can't say that for Vail on their lifts.

No, there is no trace of the late, lamented gondola save the buildings. Perhaps one of the most-storied lifts ever, it deserves an "I remember when..." thread.

... maybe with the "over/under" on the number of conceptions it witnessed.

[h.harb]

That rumor is still around, I never did that.
Nothing ever happened to the outside of the gondolas, plenty happened on the inside.

[Icanski]

Great thread. Love the pictures, Max, and that black and white outfit looks like you mean business...PMTS, men in black
Quick question for you and Harald. There's been a lot of discussion recently about holding the CA at the end of the turn. There's a moment when the upper body is neutral; square" to the lower body...with the quick transfer and tipping into the new turn right away, is that moment no longer necessarily when the skis are at the flat moment, or float? Just checking if there's been some new thinking on this. I'm thinking of that moment in the "Sample Turn" in Essentials where you go through the transition and there's a moment when the skis are flat/float, and the upper body is square with the lower body (square being neutral). Is this varied on steeps or some of the deeper snow conditions where you need as little neutral time as possible?
thanks,
Icanski
(Many of our resorts are closing this weekend due to wonky weather...hoping for a few more ski days before it's back to the harb carvers for a few months. )

[Max_501]

Hold CA at the end of the turn, once the skis are on the new edges, start CA for that turn. You need to have plenty of CA by the time the skis hit the fall line or you'll end up with upper body rotation. These turns are far too fast to be thinking about a point where the upper body is neutral with the skis.

[h.harb]

In the examples I am showing here, there is constant movement of winding and un-winding, I never think about neutral in these situations or when I should be square. I think more about making sure I don't get any rotation, and keeping the inside of my body from moving/rotating back. Or outside moving forward. Holding the CA is probably the longest non-moving phase of the upper body. However the lower body and legs are releasing really fast and re-engaging, while the CA is held.

[Icanski]

Thanks for the clarification. As you say, it happens quite quickly when moving along. I'm not thinking of holding it anywhere during a turn, just wanted to see how it timed out. The winding and unwinding image is the way it feels and timing it so that energy is used to help it flow through.
Now for some more chances to unwind on the slopes.

[Max_501]

A a very important (ADVANCED) off piste technique is letting the skis go (move forward) early in the turn. This increases the range of motion for absorption and is useful in terrain that is steep, bumped, or when skiing dense snow that has a high resistance. In the following sequence I prepare for the resistance of the snow by reducing foot pull back and adding a small amount of forward movement. Not too much, just enough to manage the resistance I know is coming. I'm skiing fast here so timing the flexion is tricky. In this case my upper body gets jolted forward at the end of the turn because I flexed my legs a split second too late. If I hadn't anticipated the resistance by letting my skis get forward my back would taken a much bigger jolt - not good at high speed.

[Ihamilton]

We had boot to knee deep powder at WB this morning and I used a lot of what is in this thread. Our snow moisture composition is probably similar to that shown here. No cement today but you couldn't blow it away, the skis must cut through it. When my skis were buried and I wanted to release the stance ski, I didn't just flex my leg, I was pulling the stance ski up. That opens the ankle and I could feel my calf's against the back of the boot and for a split second it feels like my feet are too far forward, but by immediately tipping the skis would go under and start to turn and the snow would slow them down so I was centred again. The same feeling occurred when I was able to get a bump to bring the skis up. I am not sure I want to push my feet ahead. Does it cause stress on the knees and is it necessary?

[HighAngles]

Here's some video of me from Super Blue when we skied West Wall at A-Basin. Not my best skiing, but not my worst (definitely got back on a couple turns), but many of the off-piste techniques and tactics that Max_501 has outlined can be seen in the video.

BTW - West Wall is about a 35* pitch sustained down the face.