Reilly ski "training" videos, not really!

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Reilly ski "training" videos, not really!

Postby HighAngles » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:07 am

Heluva has posted these videos on other forums to show skiers what good skiing should look like. I really like Reilly's skiing and he says that he follows the Korean short turn technique. How do the PMTS forum members rate his skiing from a PMTS perspective?



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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby h.harb » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:15 am

I don't see anything major, these are the easy turns (half turns, not really speed controlled), there is some shoulder follow and arm pole swing, but nothing to point out until you make him do turns specially task oriented runs. None of those turns had High "C" emphasis. He's not bending the ski, and tightening the radius, these are mostly side cut turns. But nothing wrong with that, unless speed control is required on a steeper slope or carving a pure turn.

I have to say, he has improved compared to 2 years ago, his flexing and inside ski tipping are much better. Must be becoming a student of PMTS. Wow, he must be taking grief from his buddies, skiing with his feet so close together.
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby HighAngles » Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:57 pm

Now that you mention it, the turns aren't really round - there's no emphasis on carving the top of the high-C, he kind of just blows past that portion.
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby h.harb » Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:35 pm

What he's doing is a different kind of skiing, ( from PMTS, it's not bad skiing, it's just not evolved), on those slopes he doesn't really need speed control, because of the snow and the lack of steepness. If this were on more icy snow and steeper, he's be a run away train or he'd have to hit hard on his edges and pop to control speed. It's not my preferred way to ski, but it's accepted by many. We just have a different standard.

Also, if you tried to do that all day long you'd be wiped. He's young, strong and a good athlete, so he can ski that way for a while yet.
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby maxman » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:29 pm

Help me understand what is missing in this skiing to get better speed control. It looks like the skier is flexed and tipping well. Are the skis not engaged early enough in the high C part and what would he be doing differently to change this? Are these half turns because of weight distribution on both skis, not enough CA? Is he releasing too early and not getting a good float?
When I first watched it the skiing looked good to me but I don’t have the trained eye. I can see the speed control is not there but is it because it’s not needed on that slope? I sometimes find myself in a similar situation where the edge engagement is short and I’m getting rebound but no speed control.
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby h.harb » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:45 pm

Missing is, Target tipping , High C engagement and he's using steering, so his edge engagement is well after the falline. Add not much time to get tip pressure and you have it your answer. He's probably skiing too fast for his movement ability to create the control when he gets on the more difficult terrain.

We are talking about the difference between an acceptable, good ski instructor's skiing and a world class skier's movements. Recreational skiers can make world class movements, if taught correctly.
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby maxman » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:04 pm

That’s good to know. I’ve been working on target tipping which feels great when you wait for the engagement of the edges to make the turn. This of course is on green runs at lower speed but when you’re picking up speed quickly and you feel you’re going to run off the side of the hill before turning, the skis need some help to get the turn started. I guess this is the point where someone is skiing too fast for one’s ability. Also I would guess the correct thing to do is tip earlier and more aggressively. If that’s correct then to get to a higher level is it a matter of continuous practice on progressively steeper runs while maintaining the correct movements?
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby h.harb » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:20 pm

And it sounds like you need to bend your legs some into the new edge angles, (see You tube video) that's why your skis are taking too long to engage. You can't put a ski on edge if you are extending. You can only lean which, causes a lot of other problems.
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby serious » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:24 am

I thought the skiing is fantastic, but it represents a very dynamic, aggressive type of skiing that is hard to do all day long. I spend 14-16 hours/week training on a bike and have more stamina than most, but skiing like that all the time would be very hard.

As for some of the shortcomings Harald mentioned, I agree, but we also have to contend that the guy is "on the edge of control" of his rebounds, so transitions are super fast. He basically does not have the time for targeted tipping and strong high C. But I have to believe that he can do them if that was his intention.
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby h.harb » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:26 am

Got video? Doing a proper PMTS brushed carve arc, may not be an automatic for those movements he's using. If you watch even Richie Berger, he has trouble with a true brushed carve. But Richie is much more forward on his skis that makes the difference The Koreans and some Japanese demonstrators are the only ones I've seen with true brushed carved movement ability. And Geoffda and Max501 of course.
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby ToddW » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:17 am

serious wrote: He basically does not have the time for targeted tipping and strong high C. But I have to believe that he can do them if that was his intention.


If he could do those, why on earth would he abandon them? That would be like replacing your smartphone with a tin can and string telephone or your spreadsheet software with an abacus or a nuclear arsenal with a throwing stick. Short time isn't a valid answer. Watch Jay or Max S. or Diana or Rich ski. Or blue instructors like Walter. Or even some green instructors like geoffda. They can do it. They do do it routinely.
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby h.harb » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:26 pm

Picking out the movements of a skier at these levels, isn't a thing you learn over night. Notice how there is universal agreement often, about someone's skiing until you break it down and show where some movements don't exist or other movements cover up the mistakes. Lots of skiing can look good to less experienced skiers, coaches and especially instructors. In many cases, even what is incorrect is highly touted as great skiing, not because it is, but because it's all you know. My understanding of skiing, coaching and analysis has always been predicated by what the best skiers are doing, World Cup skiers. If you want to ski like the best, you have to be ready to compare yourself to the best. It may not be pretty all the time, but it will get you better and not waste a lot of time and energy doing it.
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby serious » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:02 pm

ToddW wrote:
serious wrote: He basically does not have the time for targeted tipping and strong high C. But I have to believe that he can do them if that was his intention.


If he could do those, why on earth would he abandon them? That would be like replacing your smartphone with a tin can and string telephone or your spreadsheet software with an abacus or a nuclear arsenal with a throwing stick. Short time isn't a valid answer. Watch Jay or Max S. or Diana or Rich ski. Or blue instructors like Walter. Or even some green instructors like geoffda. They can do it. They do do it routinely.


I don't know what he can do. I was just speculating! :D
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Re: Reilly ski "training" videos, not really!

Postby h.harb » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:35 am

I really like Reilly's skiing and he says that he follows the Korean short turn technique.


No, it's not close to the Korean demonstrator skiers. Those guys put an arc in the turn, from start to finish, Reilly just jumps on the edges, below the falline.
After watching this a second time, what is the training value in this footage?

He's in the back seat, if you watch closely in the soft snow he's OK with that, but on the hard snow, his ski chatters. He really starts to swing his arms and shoulders, in short turns on hard snow, but is trying to hold back the rotation. The pole swing that creates the problem is based on old school style. THe better Koreans have a "No Swing", Reilly doesn't.

At this level of skiing you have to have all there pieces and parts, together, if you are missing something, like an Essential, it Reilly shows up.
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Re: Reilly ski "traing" videos

Postby cheesehead » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:37 am

maxman wrote:... I’ve been working on target tipping which feels great when you wait for the engagement of the edges to make the turn. This of course is on green runs at lower speed but when you’re picking up speed quickly and you feel you’re going to run off the side of the hill before turning, the skis need some help to get the turn started. ....

"....the skis need some help to get the turn started...."

I am just a student, but I believe the instructors' responses would start with, "No, they don't!" (although, if you really ARE going to crash into something, worry about stopping safely and not necessarily about your form)
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