Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

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Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby h.harb » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:46 pm

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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby Smackboy1 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:01 am

Hi Harald, thanks for bringing this up. What does this mean for Fischer boots and recreational skiers? The Fischer Vacuum Fit boot is being marketed as the new best thing since sliced bread. Is it a problem inherent in the boot itself e.g. Soma Tec abduction; or the Vacuum Fit plastic? Or is it a human element e.g. poor boot fitting? Or is something else going on?
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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby Matt » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:37 am

Probably not relevant on the WC level, but my "recreational vacuum fit" did not include any posting of boot sole or insole. I have realized afterwards that I really need that, but it is not included in the "out-of-the-box" Fischer Vacuum fitting process, and now I am stuck with some expensive boots that don't really do me any good.
Apart from that I am not on a level to determine what the inherent problem with the boot is.
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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby marsound » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:49 am

I too am wondering whether the Fischer vacuum boots are inherently flawed re alignment, or if it depends more on the fitter. Seems like a good idea, at least for fit. A reputable fitter in SLC recommended them for my super narrow Achilles and low volume instep.

Matt, couldn't your insole be posted after the vacuum fit process?
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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby h.harb » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:01 am

In our shop we often do set ups for racers on Fisher boots. It's very difficult to get them right, even if you have a compete in-depth understanding of inside the boot and outside the boot alignment. To set up the boot for best skiing, you have to have the starting point of the knee outside of center. If not you get extreme knock need results. I have seen athletes who have started out on center and they can't buy an edge with this boot. The problem is you start outside and it's more difficult to roll the boot on edge, then you get the opposite, it swings way inside near the bottom of the arc. That's why even with good alignment, it's still a challenge. I'm not talking about the vacuum fit part. They don't use it on World cup boot the plastic is too thick. How ever the alignment issues apply to the recreational version as well.
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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby Smackboy1 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:09 am

h.harb wrote:To set up the boot for best skiing, you have to have the starting point of the knee outside of center. If not you get extreme knock need results. I have seen athletes who have started out on center and they can't buy an edge with this boot. The problem is you start outside and it's more difficult to roll the boot on edge, then you get the opposite, it swings way inside near the bottom of the arc.


One of the conflicting opinions I've read online is the Fischer Soma abducted stance works better for bowlegged skiers. So if I'm understanding the above correctly, the boot would be a disaster for a knock kneed skier. I'm knocked kneed so this thread has saved me mucho $ and frustration. Thanks.
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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby BigE » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:40 am

The photos include A frames above the gate as well. I've skied these boots, and found that rolling the ski onto edge will produce a pivot, as it is common to think your foot ought to stick straight out when you roll it, not at an angle. For your foot to do that, it has to pivot. Awful feeling. That being said, the boot gains an edge easily if you press straight on the cuff.
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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby semnoz » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:44 am

Thanks for the detailed blog post and photo comparisons, very revealing!
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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby h.harb » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:13 am

One of the conflicting opinions I've read online is the Fischer Soma abducted stance works better for bowlegged skiers. So if I'm understanding the above correctly, the boot would be a disaster for a knock kneed skier. I'm knocked kneed so this thread has saved me mucho $ and frustration. Thanks.


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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby Matt » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:06 am

marsound wrote:
Matt, couldn't your insole be posted after the vacuum fit process?

No, they are too snug after the process. It has to be done before. I did that on my own because I could not find any fitter that understood what I was talking about. Slightly better but still way off a good fit. Until I can save up the money for a PMTS camp trip I don't really see any way out.
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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby Matt » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:10 am

h.harb wrote:In our shop we often do set ups for racers on Fisher boots. It's very difficult to get them right, even if you have a compete in-depth understanding of inside the boot and outside the boot alignment. To set up the boot for best skiing, you have to have the starting point of the knee outside of center. If not you get extreme knock need results.


That is interesting. I am actually a bit bow legged when I stand without boots, but with these boots I become very knock kneed, even if I tip my free foot really hard inside the boot:


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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby h.harb » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:05 am

Matt you have to go further toward bow-legged alignment with this boot. Even if you think you are bowlegged to begin with.
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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby h.harb » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:52 am

Kosletic is the only WC skier who has figured out the Fischer boot in slalom. He hip counters more than the rest and he makes a rounder arc that makes speed. The Italians have not figured out the boots and they have 5 of their best skiers on Fischer boots, that's just stupid. The coaches are crazy to allow that with any single company. If you watched the World Cup finals slalom race, you can see the Fischer Boot guys have to wait so long to get pressure. When they do get pressure; they can't release, because the knee is so far in that they have to step out of the turn and end up with a huge, wide, "A" framed stance. A disaster, Federico you have to talk to your countryman, they have some real talented skiers, but the equipment is terrible. Even Herbst looks knocked-kneed on Fischer boots and he never was knocked-kneed when he was on Tecnica/Blizzard..
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Re: Boots, and how they influence world cup skiers.

Postby federico » Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:04 pm

I'll try...

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