Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one?

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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby h.harb » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:21 pm

Art, that is brilliant, and you are absolutely right!
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby HeluvaSkier » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:31 pm

When discussing those great coaches who were not able to "walk the talk" I think it is important to note a few things... One, they are probably one in a million in their fields. Two, even though they are able to discern high level movements and know what sets the best apart from the rest, they do not claim to be able to do it themselves. Three, they are usually masters of spotting EXISTING talent... not always creating it themselves.

The coaches I am referring to, are coaches who ski regularly, demo for their students, all the while thinking they are coaching the same stuff as what the best are learning and using. They are a classic case of not knowing what they don't know... because they think they know everything and actually know next to nothing about how to develop a skier.
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

www.youtube.com/c/heluvaskier
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby MonsterMan » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:21 pm

Harald, I knew what I said would upset a few people, certainly you.


wtf? f off!


HH added:
Well Monsterman, you are absolutely right in your response and guess what? The minor disturbance, no longer exists. It was fun for a little while, but it got tedious and not real fun.
"Someone once said to me that for us to beat the Europeans at winter sports was like Austria tackling us at Test cricket. I reckon it's an accurate judgement." Malcolm Milne
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby BigE » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:27 am

razie wrote:. Yes, I am new at this, have little background in sports and coaching and where exactly do you expect me to learn from if not from those that know way more than me?


If 50% is other than technical and you have little sports background then what exactly are you going to bring to the table that is not technical?

Just do the drills along with your kids. Work on what is feasible for you to work on, and quit the BS. The other 50% is not cheerleading.
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby h.harb » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:39 pm

Razie, You are not challenging the establishment, in fact no one here is challenged in the least by what you say, we are just rolling our eyes at the stupidy. I'm not upset at all by your comments, I just think you are ignorant, a waste of time, don't know how to learn and you are trying to find the easy way. There is no easy way, you have to pay your dues. Personally, I don't think you have the right attitude to last as a ski coach, (or at least make a good one) so you might as well quit and save lots of kids the misinformation for your involvement.

I amend this statement, as it's people exactly like him that end up as Canadian program directors. They have had one that basically ruined development for 15 years and knew about as much about skiing , athletes and coaching as our "deleted" friend.
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby jclayton » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:37 pm

Here we go again !

People seem to forget that this is a single minded forum . It is PMTS , no substitutes allowed .
Too many people will not lose their own agenda which dilutes the effectiveness and if they refuse to leave their egos at the door are just wasting good advice and instruction
( given free I might add ) from what is demonstrably the best teaching system in the world . I find it remarkable that Harald and others give so much time to this forum and actually show much patience , as long as one is prepared to listen and learn .

A spade is a spade , political correctness has no place in a single minded pursuit for perfection/excellence , in any field .

I also wonder why these defenders suddenly crop up out of nowhere with metaphorical names . Can I hear axes grinding in the background ?
skinut ,among other things
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby federico » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:43 pm

this skier is still developing


And he is coaching?!

This is an oxymoron.

At least in the Alps (Franch, Austria and Italy) you have to :

1) pass the selection to be an instructor:
a) GS selection FIS setting: time not more than 9% added to the media of the two best of three parametrists
( parametrists are Europa cuppers...) People under 50 FIS points are exempted
b) Demonstrate the three arcs on steep

2) attend 4 months class and pass the exam for instructor diplome

3) after two years pass the selection to be a coach
a) again parametric GS (don't remember exact handicap wich is less then 9%) People under 50 FIS points are exempted.
b) demonstrate "agonistic" arcs

4) attend 1 month class x 2 times at the federal school and pass the exam for level 1 federal coach.

I don't say that that they are geniuses, but at least they have strong racing background and a certain professionality...
MAIORA VIRIBUS AUDERE
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby h.harb » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:21 pm

Thanks Federico, there is a point when someone has to take some initiative. This forum can be very informational, but it's not an re-educational center. If you want education and PMTS there are plenty of places to get the basics, for free. What I object to is people trying to quote from other sources and have us justify PMTS on a step by step basis, based on those sources. There is a grace period and after awhile if already resolved principles of PMTS, are questioned on an on going basis by anyone who has not taken the time to educate themselves in PMTS by reading or studying, tolerance for this will evaporate.

Discussing PMTS, relating experiences and dissecting them is fine, but don't come here justifying what you are doing in coaching because your training with conflicting, already documented outdated information, without at least knowing what PMTS is.
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby h.harb » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:24 pm

People seem to forget that this is a single minded forum . It is PMTS , no substitutes allowed .
Too many people will not lose their own agenda which dilutes the effectiveness and if they refuse to leave their egos at the door are just wasting good advice and instruction
( given free I might add ) from what is demonstrably the best teaching system in the world . I find it remarkable that Harald and others give so much time to this forum and actually show much patience , as long as one is prepared to listen and learn .


Well said JClayton.
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby h.harb » Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:28 pm

And, there are people on this forum that have been here for over a decade, continually contributing, and have never been reprimanded or expelled. That is because they know how to engage and behave well and keep intelligent conversation. If you come here to agitate, your privilege to participate will be removed. This forum is a privilege, so have and show respect for it's people, the system and it's information.
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby h.harb » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:31 pm

Oh, and BTW, your sob story, about how mean we or I am here, and go try it on the NRA.
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby h.harb » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:47 pm

I was sent a link to this old thread today. In one post there years ago, I wrote, "much of the success of coaches has to do with the horses they coach." Many will say, the Dad's of some top racers were their coaches but the Dad's could not ski.

If you look at the Kostelic family, Dad coached his two kids to world cup wins and Olympic medals. So everyone thinks he's a great coach. Not so fast. After his kids retired he coached the team in Croatia for decades, no results, not one skier. So what does that tell you? There was no talent, so he went from being a great coach to a bad coach. Why? Because his talent pool dried up. After Marc G., his dad never produced a single athlete. In many cases, it's the horses.

You can judge the good coaches at the USSA club level by how the middle of their pack skis. Not their top kids their middle kids who never make it. If you see great skiers, but they are slow, that is a great coach. It shows they were well coached and they have great skiing but because they don't have the talent; so they can't go fast.
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby bmoose21 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:55 pm

I agree that it's often the horse... I think my son is a case in point. Although my own skiing is pretty bad, his progress with PMTS is amazing to me. In just a little over a year he has gotten to the point of carving steep blue icy terrain with solid essentials, and he recently made a big breakthough on his brushed BPST. While I try to help by giving him feedback/MA etc. his skiing is really the result of a superior teaching system and the fact that he is pretty athletic, has good flexibility and is very driven and competitive.
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby h.harb » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:06 pm

We'd love to see some of his skiing!
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Re: Can't make a WC turn? Why do you think you can teach one

Postby bmoose21 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:17 pm

He does post on the MA forum... here's some video
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3nScu ... Kp5SjLT10A

Looking forward to getting video this weekend of his short turn improvements and carving.
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