Waterski and PMTS

[Jan]

I'm an avid waterskier and this is my first post. Apologies if it is not appropriate.

Are there any aspects of PMTS that can be applied to waterski slalom ? One of the obvious differences is that we only use one ski (w one foot behind the other) so I'm not sure how to look at the tipping concepts (is there a single stance foot eg the front one, or are both feet simultaneously stance feet...)

Any waterskiers among u?

Thks for your help

Regards, Jan

[Harald]

Hi Jan,

You just happened to be in the right place to ask about water skiing and alpine skiing technique. I have been helping from a distance, (he lives in Wisconsin) the world?s best water skier. I started working with Jim Michaels about three years ago and now he holds the world record for both amateur and pro slalom skiers. I applied PMTS principles to his water ski stance and for his creation of body angles. I also suggested to him that he lead more with the upper body and mid body into the turn, to allow more ski acceleration through the arc. I also work with his timing relative to edge change and ski acceleration. Although I am not with him on day to day bases, he incorporates much of the PMTS ideas. His regular coach is a PMTS accredited ski instructor, which helps to convey ideas.

I am invited by Jim to go to Florida this June with three of the best slalom skiers in the world and two of the best water ski coaches, to work on the approaches I introduced to Jim three years ago. They seem to be working, and Jim credits my suggestions to him for some of his success. Jim also submitted an article about my water ski coaching ideas to the Water Skiing magazine.

Jim is a very dedicated and exceptional athlete and a very good snow skier. I have coached his snow skiing, he picks things up very quickly. His sister used to be a member of the US Freestyle ski team. I am honored to be asked by this caliber of athlete to participate in his training and skiing development. I?ll be snow skiing with Jim in January, on a Wisconsin PMTS instructor training tour. I?m sure we?ll be watching Jim?s water skiing technique. I should have more information when I return.

[Jan]

Thks Harald, I wld indeed be very interested to hear more about this in January - Dr Jim Michaels performances are amazing !

In the meantime, I do have a couple of questions/comments:

- I'm surprised u recommended Jim to lead more w the upper body: does this mean eliminating/minimising counter?

- do u recommend dorsiflexion and/or pulling both legs back in or just before the turn in order not to rock back on the ski (wheelie)?

- How do u put the waterski on an edge: I feel I do it essentially by hip angulation but with no specific action from the ankles

Thks again for your help

[Harald]

Quick answers as I have an appointment. So it sounds like you are familiar with Jim?

Thks Harald, I wld indeed be very interested to hear more about this in January - Dr Jim Michaels performances are amazing !

In the meantime, I do have a couple of questions/comments:

- I'm surprised u recommended Jim to lead more w the upper body: does this mean eliminating/minimising counter?

HH response: Actually I encouraged him to use more hip counter. When I said lead I meant lead with a forward angle, not rotation. Just as you would advance your hips and upper body relative to the feet, holding back the feet under the hips, as in a ski turn.

- do u recommend dorsiflexion and/or pulling both legs back in or just before the turn in order not to rock back on the ski (wheelie)?


HH response: Yes, I encourage Jim to pull or hold back the feet to allow his upper body to advance before accelerating the ski through the turn.


- How do u put the waterski on an edge: I feel I do it essentially by hip angulation but with no specific action from the ankles

HH: I don?t believe waterskiing has the same ankle and foot movements as in skiing. Hip angulation and mid body contraction is more important. Although Jim does us our footbeds in his bindings to help stabilize his feet, you do have to weight the digging or deeper edge in the water by weighting one side of the foot more than the other. Water skiing requires more or as much core strength than alpine skiing.

HRHA

[Jan]

Thanks Harald this is very interesting. I'm really looking forward to hear more about all this in January.

What wld be the easiest way for me to get hold of the PMTS instructors' guide? I have already pre-ordered the revised editions of your books. I live in London.

Regards, Jan

[Harrison]

i want to try that some day, i bet its a good time

[Arc]

Jan,
I use the same foot movements to trigger the release of one turn and start the next on snow or water. Roll the right foot to go right, and left to go left (does not matter which foot is forward on SL ski).

I am in S.E. Wis and have explored the coorelations between snow and water ski movement pools for a good 15+ years of skiing with JM's coach, (who is also my only water ski coach) who I have coached in snow skiing for longer than that. Efficient biomechanics and use of the kinetic chain and skelatal structure are fundamental to both sports, with some adptation to the physics of the energy environment in which they are applied. Note, my Malibu is named "Horizontal Gravity" just for fun.
Arc

[Jan]

Arc,

- do u apply this technique (tip right to go right, left to go left) to edge change or after the edge change when u want to trigger the turn round the buoy?

- is this tipping movement essentially done w the ankle?

- do u still use hip angulation?

- what do u do to prevent wheelies on your offside turn?

- what are the main technique adaptations from snow to water? is there anything fdtal u try and do on snow which shl not be applied to water skiing?

Thks for your help

Regards, Jan

[*SCSA]

Hey Jan,

Can you post a few pictures of you doing hip angulation in your bathing suit? MilesZ and I would like to critique your form.

[Jan]

only dry suit at this time of the year!

[Jan]

only dry suit at this time of the year!

[Arc]

Arc,

- do u apply this technique (tip right to go right, left to go left) to edge change or after the edge change when u want to trigger the turn round the buoy? Both, the movements are continous, but increasing the rate and intensity can increase edge angle and tighten the arc, if needed.

- is this tipping movement essentially done w the ankle? I apply the movement thru the whole foot inverting/everting as appropriate.

- do u still use hip angulation? Some, more on onside than offside, but I may stack more than some of the younger guys so as not to over-stress my lower back.

- what do u do to prevent wheelies on your offside turn? Basically I try to keep my stance centered and use both feet to ski as much of the ski as possible and keep it turning to the first wake if possible. I find it better to be patient and complete a solid round turn later with good angle and a smooth transition to the pull than throwing an out of balance hook-turn at the ball that leaves you getting yanked out of your angle anyway.

- what are the main technique adaptations from snow to water? is there anything fdtal u try and do on snow which shl not be applied to water skiing? If you think in the context of concepts vs. specifics, most things apply. An efficient balanced stance, centered over both feet, using the ski technology to make a round smooth turn, but I don't use a pole plant water skiing.

Thks for your help

Regards, Jan