Which conformable foam liners - PU Proform or PU Comp?

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Which conformable foam liners - PU Proform or PU Comp?

Postby sunrise » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:49 pm

Hi,

Can anyone dissect the difference between these two types? I found these on the website:
http://www.sidas.com/index.adml?id=3051 ... 11&n=2&i=0

Actually, truth is, in Japan I may not have a choice, they might only carry one type.

Skiing level: I'm trying to follow PMTS thru HH's books/vids, I'm probably what you'd call an advanced intermediate skier (whatever that means!) - ie I can ski some blacks, still need to conquer bumps, and am starting to venture off piste, enjoy carving, skiing parallel unless I really get into trouble.

Using Head FR 9.5 boots.

Thanks,
Julianne
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Postby jclayton » Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:22 am

Hi Sunrise ,
I presume you identify with the logotypical sunrise over Mt Fuji . The 2 types of inner boots differ in the amount of chambers to accept the foam , the comp model having foam injected into the tongue and around the fore foot . This model in effect makes the boot a lot stiffer which could be a bit too much to handle , the other would probably be recommended for your skiing ability . ( Of course difficult to say without knowing your abilities first hand ) . If you like to charge hard the stiffer comp model makes quite a difference . I had inners made by Strolz in Austria similar to these comps and on my first run down ejected myself off the piste . After a few runs to get used to them the extra lateral stability was marked . I also got them after 2 hard weeks in ST Anton so I was pretty knackered . Now I use the old Head liners with the Harb carvers and they feel a bit soft . ( I have the FR 10,5 boot )
By the way where are you in Japan , I have always wanted to visit to see Kyoto and the Golden Pavilion and visit the Aikikai Honbu Dojo . The mountains also look very pretty in the photos .
skinut ,among other things
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Postby sunrise » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:48 am

Hi JC,

Thanks for your reply. I'm definitely not a comp skier :lol: As I said, I enjoy carving, am trying to get a lot more off piste this season into softer stuff, and would still like to be able to conquer moguls one day. I'm no racer, never did a slalom course. So perhaps the comp model is a bit stiff for me? I originally just wanted a womans liner since they compensate for lower feet / front of ankle area, narrower heel and probably a bit narrower width, too. But since I'm doing that I may as well pay a little extra and get foam fits. Current main need is simply something that will fit me properly. If the regular model will help out with these areas I'll be one happy camper, though maybe you PMTS folk would recommend the comp model regardless?
I'll be interested to see if Harold has any comments once he's back.

I'm in Tokyo. Kyoto and the Golden Pavilion are beautiful. Well worth a trip. Where's the Akikai dojo? Tokyo? I know there's a few of them there. I did a years worth of aikido a long time ago. Nice stuff.

Happy skiiing, Honshu is still waiting for the first big dump. I'm supposed to be out there in 27th for several days. Hokkaido is already skiable.

Julianne
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Postby jclayton » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:58 pm

Hi Julianne ,
I imagine Harald would recommend the stiffer model for anyone who likes carving as lateral boot stiffness is one of the most important ingredients but I will defer to him on this . Perhaps Skiersynergy could comment .
Always wanted to see the Golden Pavilion after reading Mishima . A Japanese girlfreind gave me the book in Japanese a long time ago (1974) but unfortunately mine only goes as far as Aikido and Karate terminology , hows yours . The Honbu Dojo is in Tokyo and is run by Ueshiba's grandson Moriteru , well worth a visit I'm told .
If one visits Japan is English spoken by many people in the street ?
skinut ,among other things
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Boots, stiffness

Postby Harald H. » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:37 pm

My preference is a boot that the holds me in a neutral position, so that I don?t need much movement to get forward or much movement to get in position to allow the ski to move forward through the arc of the turn. I find Head?s geometer to be perfect for my body proportions in this regard.

I use a Head RD for hard snow making snow and early season groomed conditions. This boot is too stiff for anything but aggressive carving or racing. I use the Head RS 100 for the rest of the snow conditions including all mountain and bumps. The RS 100 absorbs more of the irregularities on the surface encountered in all mountain condition.

Since I can still, (last time I tried) in my advanced years, flex my legs and absorb the bumps, I prefer a more supportive boot. When I get out of shape (off balance) I can rely on the boot to support me, so I can lever against it to re-center.

A soft boot wouldn?t allow me to get back to center fast enough, which causes me to miss a beat. If you try to rebound off a soft boot, the boot absorbs your efforts making the response slow. Softer boots also use up more muscle energy, as you have to constantly re-centering by dorsi flexion and hamstring pulling, retrieving your CM that could be far away from the ideal centered position.

When I load up the front of the boot, I don?t want it moving away, neutralizing my efforts. I want response and with response, I can feel my skis react. This type of skiing does take some getting used to, but I have seen the quality of skiing rise in many skiers when we upgrade their boots and their technique.
The Head 10.5 is more than stiff enough for all but the most demanding hard snow racing conditions.
Harald H.
 

boots, stiffness

Postby VicP » Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:00 pm

Harald,

As the Head 10.5 FR does not seem to be be made anymore (not on Head website) and the RS100 and S12 somewhat scarce, what would you recommend to replace the 10.5?

Also, what do you think of these Head boots:

RS80
S10
Edge 10.5 (seems to be quite softer than the FR 10.5, at least by Head specs)

Thanks,
VicP
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Harold - back to my Conformable question

Postby sunrise » Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:42 pm

Harold, thanks for your reply. Your rec last season for the FR9.5 seems to work fine for me. Apart from a bit of small movement after they wore in, I really like these boots. The new Heads sound interesting, though since I just splashed out last season I'll stick with the FRs for a little longer. Getting the Conformable custom liners plus skis is my budget's limit this season.

Actually my question was about the stiffness and basically the difference of two different types of Conformable foam custom liners, not actual boot stiffness. I'm assuming your response re soft/stiff boots was referring to the boot itself or the liners since you never referred to the liners and your subject was about boot stiffness.

So, back to my question about which Conformable to get. What would you recommend for my level of skiing (as per my first post)? I'm hoping there's a choice here between the 2 Conformable models, but there might not be.

By the way - we're in the dark ages out here, and with my limited experience it's like the blind leading the blind! Thank god for you guys! Unfortunately I'm not likely to be able to get aligned properly until I can eventually have time and funds to come and do a Harb camp in some future season. The best I have is Conformable footbeds. Japan is not big on alignment (racers, or course would have it, but I have no idea where they do it, more than likely not in Tokyo, but closer to the slopes). My lack of the language doesn't help either.


JC - I don't speak much Japanese, but definitely a bit more than you ;) - Tokyo is easier to get by with in English than other places, but it depends. More people speak English here, but millions don't. But they tend to love tourists in general, so you'll always get some kind of help if looking for directions. The Aikikai HQ must be the one in Shinjuku.

Julianne
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