Boot Planing vs Binding/ Ski Canting. Harald?

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Boot Planing vs Binding/ Ski Canting. Harald?

Postby Rookie » Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:09 pm

We all read / talk about the need to be properly aligned. My understanding is there are 2 primary means to do this: boot planing and binding/ski canting. What I would like to understand is whether or not one method would be ideally preferred over the other?

Canting the binding is obviously reversible - and planing makes a permanent change to the boot. However, seems like planing would have me set up properly to ski on different skis (rental, demo, etc).

Harald - would like to get your expert opinion on this.

Thx. Rookie
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alignment

Postby SkierSynergy » Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:53 pm

You are right about the advantage of having your boots done vs strips under your bindings.

I will throw out three sources for alignment.

First, if you have alignment measured when choosing boots, you will find that some boots put you in a better position than others.

In a Dalbello CRX, I need about 2.5 degrees of canting even with accomodations done in my footbed. In an old WC version of the CRX, I need only about 1 degree on one foot. In the Head RDs I am almost dead on what I need.

So this issue should be looked at in conjunction with boot selection.

Second, some to a lot of correction is often available through footbed work. I get most of the correction that I need through the proper posting in my footbeds. However, one foot rsponds to accomodation in the footbed better than the other.

What is left, is addressed through boot planing. Another advantage of planing the boots and having new plates put on is that you can temporarily put in a little exta in between the boot sole and the plate for extra fine tuning/experimentation.

So, I would say equipment selection, then footbed, then boot planing, in that order.
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wishful thinking

Postby Jim Ratliff » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:25 pm

It's too bad that manufacturers don't have replacment toe and heel pieces with cant built in. I think some of the Lange models have something like this recently, and I've seen 1.5 and 3 degree cants on Dale Boot boots for at least the last 5 years.

I have always been a little suprised, given the liability issues associated with bindings that interchangeable toe and heel pieces weren't DIN standardized or something.
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Do it right

Postby Harald » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:06 pm

I could go into great detail about boot planing, but here is the long and the short. Before I do any boot shaving or planing, I always do a compete biomechanical assessment. I rarely shave/plan boots unless I have skied with the individual. We shave many racer boots, but we always watch their skiing or training video before we make any decisions about how much or what other problems may exist. Too many shops do alignment and don?t really have all the facts that are required for optimal results. Boot alignment is only a small part of the bigger alignment picture. Subtalar joint mobility and forefoot alignment, shin curve and knee tracking must be part of the overall decision about boot sole shaving angle.

If we are not sure about the final, fine tuning, we install a three mm plates first, this requires less boot sole material removal, then we make adjustments based on what we see on snow with thin plastic shims under the plates to tune the preliminary shaved angles. We again evaluate the skier?s skiing. When we are certain we have it right, we do the final planing and install five mm plates.

We have seen extraordinary results with this approach. I am referring to results that can be measured with a clock, not evaluated by subjective evaluation.

We apply the lessons learned from the racers to many of the skiers we do alignment for; regular skiers may have less aggressive final canting angles. We see boots from many shops and racer reps. The work is very inconsistent. Many of the racers don?t want to tell their reps that their work wasn?t satisfactory, as they must work with these people all year. Some even sneak around to get their boots into our shop.

The same applies to footbeds. I have collected boxes of not so beneficial product. Most of this type of product is stiff and rigid under the arches, which locks up the foot and ankle. These products cause many problems with alignment, foot and knee pain. I can tell you the best skiers in the world and informed skiers do not use these types of product.
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Postby bud » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:10 pm

I have found that many times people are asymetrical in their canting needs and that when I check my records from a customers' previous boots that changing boots may change the canting requirements the difference between right and left is usually the same (ie: boot #1 may be 1 degree on the left and 2 1/2 on the right and boot #2 we would find they needed different degrees but the difference between right and left would still be 1 1/2 degrees). I also question the validity of associating footbed varus and valgus changes with canting needs because I have not seen a strong correlation in my experience. Don't be afraid to plane your boots they can still be tweaked a little. If your boot guy does a good job you will be in the right church, right pew, and either in the right seat or right next to it. Any adjustments after that should be rather minor.

I have done on hill assessments for canting needs and compared these results with indoor bench measurements and they usually match up but I always trust my bench assessments. I have had great results with my methodology though it does vary a bit from harald's. I would like to talk more with you harald to hear your views. Be careful discounting others methods in favor of yours. I see some crap too but I am not going to say my way is the only way. Oh, I have been balancing/planing boots for 15 years and have a pretty good record too but I am always open to learning more :D
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