Hierarchical nature of PMTS movements-edited for world peace

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Hierarchical nature of PMTS movements-edited for world peace

Postby SkierSynergy » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:26 am

****** Edited for reasons of world peace. *********

[After some prompting by two friends, I have decided to delete the editorial stuff and go right to the content. I think there are issues of substance in the deleted section though on further consideration, they are probably not presented fairly. So many misrepresentations and pot-shots are made at PMTS without really trying to understand, that I don't want to do the same to others. I'll save the topics for another day when they can be presented in a useful manner and promote better understanding of skiing. Ok, this one is for building bridges rather than walls. As a great contemporary philospher once said: "Can't we all just get along." Oh, shit we're just that much closer to SCSA's parrty idea. Hand me a jaegermeister . . . I'll take mine with lots of Vodka]

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I have another idea to throw out. Given a particular student motivation, a common way to determine a SMIM is to ask what is the biggest limiting factor (e.g., lack of release, presence of upper body rotation, etc.)

I will offer another way into the issue.

I think that PMTS movements, in general, are hierarchical in the way they contribute to effective turning. This is an idea on it's own that I want to throw out. However, I also think that it can help to pick out a SMIM (single most important movement).

The most important movement to any turn is inversion of the free foot. Look for a the presence of this first.

This alone will produce a turn. No other movement is necessary. The stance foot will passively match the free foot angle, the kinetic chain will adjust to give appropriate balance, and even some amount of weight transfer will happen as part of the turn process. Even if the skier actively blocks parts of the process (e.g., keeping the stance leg flat -- even tipped slightly to LTE), the turn still happens. However, inversion of the free foot reaches a limit if there are no other primary movements used to facilitate it.

Which of the remaining primary movements will most facilitate the effects of the inversion? I would say flexion of the free leg (and flexion of the legs in general). It frees up a more range of inversion and makes the effects of the inversion easier, faster, and greater. Adequate flexion is also necessary to pull the free foot back.

Dorsiflexion and pulling the free foot leg back are next. Again, this frees up more range of motion for inversion and makes tipping in balance easier. It is also makes effective ULBC easier and more effective.

What movement is next in line for facilitating the primary movements?

I would say counter balance. it's necessary for maintaining effective balance, it's necessary for keeping effectively connected to one's skis; and it increases the turning and grip effects of the lower body.

The last is counter movement. In a positive sense (i.e., as an aid to the turn instead of a block to negative effects of roation and steering), it mainly makes tipping and counter balance easier.

So there is the theoretical position. How about an application.

I would suggest that one look from the top down in looking for a SMIM. Look for positive movements starting with the most important movement for producing turns and then the next most important, etc., until you hit one that is not being done or not being done enough.

I have played around a lot with Carver exercises that isolate various movements and add them together in systematic ways to see the combined effects on turn and grip. I have found this reeally enlightening and also helped me to more consciously change my movements to get specific results. So I'm throwing out the idea.
Last edited by SkierSynergy on Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby tommy » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:19 am

Jay,

bullseye! Right on! Precise!

I have no further comments! I rest my case!

Cheers,
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Postby milesb » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:21 pm

Sounds good to me.
Just to make sure I understand, would you suugest that skier first see if they can make a turn just by tipping the inside foot, then see if flexing improves it, then see if pulling the inside foot back improves it even more, etc.. until the skier gets to a movement that does not improve the turn? And that would be the SMIM?
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Definition of SMIM

Postby SkierSynergy » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:12 pm

The SMIM is the single movement that will most effectively and most directly get the skier toward your motivational goal.

So, for example, if someone said they wanted more speed control but in their skiing they lacked any/much LTE tipping at the end of the turn. A good SMIM would be to work on Inversion of the free foot during the bottom half of the turn.

"If you tip your free foot more towrd it's little toe edge, then you'll have a better chance of getting the speed control your looking for. Try to show the base of the ski to your other foot, raise the BTE off the snow. etc., etc."

You might work on inversion statically, then in traverses/garlands, then apply it in free skiing, etc. etc.

Inversion of the free foot would be the SMIM.

Another example would be if, someone expressed a desire to have more smoothness from turn to turn. When I look at them they lack a release. So the movements that create the release will be emphasized. The movements that create a release are flexing the stance leg and/or allowing the feet to flatten. In reality, we are working two sets of the primary movements here, though the relaxation of the stance leg is what wouold be emphasized.

"Flex, flatten" is the mantra here.

Again the movement would be practiced statically, then in various skiing situations. along with understanding and performance checks.

Flexion/relaxation of the old stance leg would be the SMIM.
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Picking the SMIM

Postby SkierSynergy » Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:38 pm

milesb wrote:Sounds good to me.
Just to make sure I understand, would you suggest that skier first see if they can make a turn just by tipping the inside foot, then see if flexing improves it, then see if pulling the inside foot back improves it even more, etc.. until the skier gets to a movement that does not improve the turn? And that would be the SMIM?


In general, I have played a lot with what you described for myself. And as an exercise with other pretty aware people, it seemed to be enlightening.

I can give you an example within a skier improvement lesson.

I had a skier that wanted to carve tighter arcs and keep it going longer in her turns. She tipped her free foot ok. she did the right tipping movements in an effective order. She did not have any really obvious lack of other movements. She wasn't totally stiff; she didn't have her free foot way out ahead; she didn't lean or rotate to a great excess.

So you couldn't really easily identify a SMIM in a negative way (something missing, or something bad that needed to be negated or replaced). The question was what single movement would take her tipping to the next level throughout her turns?

She knew quite a bit about PMTS. Statically, we tried adding in the remaining movements in isolation. The question was which one of the remaining movements would most facilitate the tipping angles throughout the turn? Because the contribution is hierarchical, a little experimentatioon mad it pretty obvious that increasing free foot leg flexion through the turn would contribute the most to increasing the edge angles. So, greater free foot leg flexion (and increasing through the turn) was her SMIM.

The question was:
what movement can be enhanced (inside leg flexion) that will most facilitate a more basic movement (inversion).

I'm not saying this is the only path of identifying a SMIM. Just one. But it is dependent on the idea of movements being in a hierarchical relationship of facilitation to each other.

Of course, someone could argue that they are in a reciprocal relationship and I would not argue that on a practical level they are, but I actually think that there is a real hierarchy here. Tipping (inversion/eversion) seems most basic or primary to me. etc.
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Postby Bluey » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:20 pm

This hierarchy is a good structure to work within.

It's obviously simplified and relates easily to those on average groomed runs. Fair enough.

I have an interest in pole use and hand /arm-positioning ( part of upper body coordination ) but I agree, if the basic platform isn't there then pole/arm-positioning is not the fundamental thing to work on....


In fact, one could argue that if anything else other than the basics are addresed than a person is really just going backwards with movements that are building/ingraining the wrong body memory......


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Postby Ott Gangl » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:56 pm

Forgive me, but that sounds more like rocket science than skiing. Skiing isn't all that complicated.

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Postby piggyslayer » Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:24 am

SkierSynergy

What you wrote makes a lot of sense.

I think the order in which your steps/categories are applied my depend on individual, for example, if someone has big tendencies to rotate hips, maybe this someone should work on hip counter acting movement before other movements (such as counter balance or leg pullback).
But your progression sequence seems very good typical sequence and I can identify with it in my skiing progression.

I think you may need more categories, for example:
Pole Plant and arm position is obviously very closely related to counter balance and counter movement but I think many may want to think of them as separate. For example, if someone has tendency to keep arms close to their torso then maybe this should become a separate category for them.

There maybe also a ton of "dont" categories, for example:
Most of the stuff you have outlined focuses on right to left. Some people may have big fore-aft movements. Is this a category as well?

Great post and something I will be thinking about when skiing.
Robert
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Postby Belskisfast » Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:25 am

That was a great post SkiSyn. Very logical and basic. I do believe I will be able to benefit from this simple view/definition of the basic progression of PMTS moves. Thanks.
I agree that skiing is not that complicated....and some schnapps often makes that clear...lol...however as in most things in the Universe it is a mind boggeling level of complexity needed to arrive at so simple a state of being. From a DNA helix to a carved turn there is much complexity that goes in to allowing something so basic. Hence we have our forum for debate on how many turns we can make on the head of a pin....just kidding... and why some kid can have it all dialed unconsciously. Bode just remarked on his Birds of Prey win that he was skiing on pure instinct and it was the best feeling in the world. Indeed.

Cheers to all and first tracks from this coming storm....I LOVE SNOW!
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