Ankle / leg strenghth - "ski fitness"

[Bluey]

Ok....here's a pratical question which is not TTS or PMTS and which eveyone from Ott to tommy to Harrison can throw in a few thoughs on.......

Last year I worked hard on my "ski fitness" and also my ski technique.

In respect to ski fitness, I was wondering if anyone had some practical, quantifiable rules of thumb as to what they work on e.g. wall sits for say 5 minutes or say balancing on one-foot with eyes closed for 3 minutes.......

What I'm after are the best exercises which I,or anyone else, can do, say, at work or on train to/from work ( read city commuter ) which would build strength into the more important muscles....

Please don't suggest buying a book .
I appreciate HH has written a book on fitneess and some of those ideas are in the "old/new" testament aka Book 1 & 2 but I'm after specific stuff you can do/work on when your not wearing gym-type clothes etc and when your alone and wanting to kill a few minutes etc and which are really working the vital muscles....this is not a question about cardiovascular fitness...I'm talking the real stuff e.g.......of when you're pushing it down the steeeps and you need to be able to rely upon your strength of your ankles/quads for those few crucial moments as your are trying to finish off those last few turns on a run..........I'm sure you get my drift on this.....


As I said earlier, I find wall-sits on trains and one-legged balancing on trains and railway platforms a great exercise but I find the strength I want for longer endurance ski trails is not there at the end.........I can identify that my weakest muscles seem to be in the Quads......but I get the feeling that the real problem is in my Ankles/calves and that this weakness is being referred to my quads.......

As a closer ...I'm not prepared to pound the pavement with endurance jogging/runnig as I feel this would be damaging to the other joints etc in my body ( general advice received from orthopaedic specialist about the overall harm that jogging on hard surfaces does to joggers )

So, any helpful suggestion would be appreciated........


Yes, I'm generally fit, play sport on the weekends and ride a bike, walk to the train station etc but I think these activities only build up my endurance/cadiovascular system but do not add ski fitness/strength to my ankles/quads.......


This can't be a rocket-scientist question so I'm puzzled as to what I'm not doing that others must be doing ( but I dare not say, its old age.......at 50ish I'm still in my ascendency.......) that gives them the edge at the end....


I'm open to ( polite ) questions and am ready for the usual round of hecklers but I feel this is an area of skiing which generally needs to be addressed as fitness to me equates to less chance of injury and therefore a longer number of years ( hopefully of trouble-free ) skiing........


Bluey

[jclayton]

Bluey,
prolonged running on hard surfaces is not good but some is worth while as it is about the only exercise that really strengthens the bones . Also combine it with running on soft uneven surfaces ( cross counrty ) and hard uneven surfaces ( eg pebbles ) . This conditions the propriocepters around the knees and ankles , i.e. they read changes in surfaces more quickly and thus anticipate changes in muscle movement . You can't strengthen these areas in a muscular way but you can avoid injury and read terrain changes quickly by increasing the speed of the joint/brain interface .

I don't think you can do much while on a train , the benefits are going to be fairly minor . There's really no way around doing gym work to build quads and leg extensions for the muscles immediately around the knees ( V important at our age ,I'm 52 , to avoid injury and for hanging around in the bumps )

Leg stretching , splits , side stretches for hips and lower backs as well as back stretches are important .

An actual program you would have to build up yourself according to your makeup an time you have . This probably does'nt help much but each case is different .

It sounds a bit like you are relying on your quads a bit too much while skiing , lack of ankle flexibility and surrounding muscle strength could contribute to this as well as sitting back . I sometimes fall into the trap of compensating for a sitting posture by leaning forward with my upper body , thus feeling balanced neutrally on the feet but over working the quads . Not to mention having too low a stance to release properly .

[Harrison]

as of now, my main sport is bike racing...so you can imagine the time i put into fitness...i start training on the bike in March and train through august when i start xc running until november which brings me to right now........to prepare for Nordic/Alpine skiing, i mix running,[harb]carving and biking, also weights. If you can buy some balance boards, and do some squating with weights in your hands on the board, thats some really good balance exercise

the Carvers are probably the best summer balance/training/preparation for skiing...you mimic ski movements, also it takes a great deal of work to pole back to the start of the course uphill

[Rusty Guy]

I have worked for the last four years as a consultant to a professional sports team here in the US. It is in the operational side of things. One of the benefits is that I have had the opportunity to meet with their strength and conditioning folks.

The current "rage" in the US are kettlebell exercises and bodyweight conditioning. Kettlebells are a very old form of exercise. They are also fairly expensive to ship.

Their is a site run by a former Russian military fitness trainer that is good. It is a little heavy on the marketing. Here it is;

http://www.dragondoor.com

I'm not sure I would have the nerve to do this on a train, however, my favorite bodyweight exercise are "hindu squats". You can do a google search and find plenty of info.

Here is a little description;

Hindu squat. Start standing up, back straight, head up, chest up, feet hip-width apart. Feet point forward or slightly out?whatever feels good on the knees. Reach forward with your arms and then pull back as in a rowing motion until your fists are even with your chest. As you pull your arms back, inhale. Start to exhale and squat down letting your arms fall behind your hips. As you squat your heels raise off the floor so you are squatting on the balls of your feet. Squat as low as you can but do not bounce at the bottom. Rise up, simultaneously reaching forward with your arms as you inhale. The breathing pattern is opposite that of standard squats (without those rowing arm movements) and squats with weights. Throughout the whole squat keep your back straight. Repeat the cycle.

Hindu squats should be done fairly fast and in large numbers. One hundred Hindu squats should take less than 3 minutes. At the beginning though, you should do as many as you can do comfortably and go as slow as it takes.

The standard formula for doing these is to do 100 in two and a half to three minutes. It is a great quick workout.

Hope that helps.

[*SCSA]

I do a lot of stretching now, 5 or 6 days a week. I also use the disc for balance work.

I'm also going to a chiro every so often. May I put in a shameless plug for my ski buddy Todd Carmer? Todd owns and operates Eagle Chiropractic, here in Eagle. I know some are not too up on chiros but he's done me nothing but good. He's a pro and an athlete. He's living the life up here and he practices what he preaches.

Why a chiro? Hey man, I ski a lot -- 4 or 5 days a week now and I ski hard. When you ski as much as I do, a guy just needs to get adjusted every so often. I think it's way better than getting a massage.

Who knows? Maybe I'll get with Rusty and do the Hindu.

[Ott Gangl]

First, you are asking a 72-year-old. Second, I am overweight and mostly unfit and have been so at least the last ten years. I do go to the gym a couple of times a week but do mostly the leg press machine and the crunching one but not too much.

I used to do wall sits but when I try now, after about 30 seconds my thighs burn enough so that I cannot get up from the wall sit, I have slide to the floor, and also there seems to be pain in my knees like I'm going to tear my ACL any moment.

And finally I have friends my age who have injured themselves while doing pre-skiing excerzies. At our age even my fit friends have to use help from the handrail while going up a flight of stairs even without carying a case of beer.

Conseqiuently I ski myself into enough shape that I can last through the winter, it takes about three days of skiing and muscle fateague, then I'm all right. I pick my terrain, often looking wistfully at slopes I used to rip but making a judgement weighing a thrill against a possibility of ending my skiing forever.

I also have substituted skill for strength. Thus, many consecutive hard carving turns take their toll, while brushed, scarved or drifted turns don't load up the old bones nearly as much. Also, skiing is not my primary hobby.

Oh what I would give to be 65 again

.....Ott

[John Mason]

Rusty is right on. Hindu squats - they are killer. They work your quads, calfs and your wind.

My son used to weight train all the time. He switched to body weight exercises - hindu squat, hindu pushups, and bridges. He has gained another 15 pounds of functional muscle and lost fat. He is about 230 now and 5'11'' ish. He teaches gymnastics and cheerleading and is one of those guys that can toss the gal from one hand to the other.

Those three also develop great core strength.

Me, nothing gets sore anymore. My quads used to burn a long time ago. Now I just get out of breath. But, I don't when I ski east. Just the high altitude west. I work out on an eliptic trainer which helps. If I lost about 15 lbs that'd help too I'm sure.

[Harrison]

^i wouldnt want to mess with your son

[SkierSynergy]

I think Joseph did a really interesting program this summer. Maybe he could tell us about it. It really sounded good. Joe?

[Rusty Guy]

Three minutes of hindu squats in the morning is a power packed way to improve your fitness.

[skier_j]

Bluey, why not stand during your commute and work on balance stuff?

Another that ought to work real well for PMTS is just plain walking around the office. Not really a fitness thang, but helpful, none the less.

Imagine walking to the water cooler, it is to the left at the next corridor. How would you make the turn on ski's? Do the same motions walking (as best you can on carpet). Lead with the appropriate foot, let your body flow into the turn.

Pretend you're doing short radi turns, pick things in your path to "turn" around.

You'd be surprised not only at the looks you'll get, but what good "muscle memory" practice it becomes.

[John Mason]

Skier_j - I tried that. Didn't work so well.

I found out my feet don't bend and carve arcs like skis do when tipped and pressured latterally.

I have to steer my feet to get my feet to turn in the office walking around. I don't have to do that to my skis. In fact, if I did, I'd reduce my skis ability to carve.

[tanman]

I bought the SkiersEdge Big Mountain series this year and I reckon it been the best training and fitness aid, It is so specific to the ski muscles and gives you a really good work out. I also train by cycling about 100 miles a week and swimming about 2 miles/week. I am going to try the Harb Carvers next week.

[piggyslayer]

Here is something you guys may find interesting. Harald told me that one of the issues that can cause knock-kneed stance is lack of balance in the way your muscles are developed. Here is what I remember from the conversation + some of my thoughts (I hope I have not messed up too much).
It is important to balance how strong are the muscles responsible for abduction of the hip vs. how strong are the muscles responsible for adduction. Similarly compare strength of muscles responsible for medial (internal) rotation vs. lateral (external) rotation.
Since we are going after passive stance leg, we should strive for strong muscles involved in lateral rotation which will stabilize the stance leg and resist internal/medial rotation of the leg. At the same time strong hip abductors will help in getting rid of BTE dominance.

I believe that this is something to think about. I think that imbalance of muscle strength is something hard to resolve by footbeds or canting.
If you remember Susan Summers ?thigh master? training device used by many women, it was designed to exercise the adductors, I wonder how many girls have messed up their skiing with that exercise. In fact women tend to have the adductors stronger without any extra exercises.

Commenting on skier_j suggestion. I actually do something similar from time to time. I stand on one leg with knee bend slightly and try to go to LTE on the stance leg and relax, go to LTE on the stance leg and relax, ? Then I try to be a bit off-balance so getting on LTE is harder and to the same movements. I hope this description is clear.

I wrote couple of times in my posts that my favorite exercise is squat with barbell and weight on my shoulders (this is the type of squat you go to gym to do-so it may be not what this thread is about). Many people do not do it because of knee problems, I do it largely to avoid knee problems and because of old knee injuries and alignment problems.
The rest will be about the squat, so if you not interested just ignore the rest of my post.

Powerlifting squat, as you may know involves going quite a good morning and a lot of effort comes from your butt. What is interesting in this movement from ?kinesiology? point of view is that both the knee and hip joints move at the same time so that your quads and hamstrings maintain about constant length. These two co-contract stabilizing the knee and hip joints. Both have tendons which go around your knee and stabilize the knee joint. Strong hamstrings are very important in stabilizing the knee and keeping your knees healthy.

Let me know if you want to discuss any of that, especially the squat.

[Biowolf]

PS:
Your knowledge about the exercise is impressive. My problem with it is my lower back. Any input ?