Countered Hips

[jbotti]

I have spent the past 15 days of skiing working almost exclusively on my CA/CB and on the NSPP (No Swing Pole Plant) and the NET (No Energy Turn). After running 60-100 miles per week for many years I have what I will call runners afflcition when it comes to my hips. I had to work for almost a year to get back some hip mobility after I quit running about 7 years ago. Running tends to lock up the hips and the hips are always facing forward in running, never in opposition or countered to the legs (as we need in skiing). When we factor in the fact that I had one ski season where my back flared up and went into spasm several times due to a bulging disk, I had become a skier with almost no lateral hip movement. When I did CA forces with the upper body, my hips would not move with my upper body. I spent several days working with Harald on this and at first I could feel my back and I wasn't sure if it would hold up through several days of significant hip counter. Luckliy after the first two days, my back was fine and it was clear to me that my body could handle this motion.

Again I have spent the past 15 or so ski days going for maxiumum CA forces on every turn and making sure that my hips are also moving the maximum countering that is possible. I feel like a different skier. In carving, I am getting much more tip pressure and higher edge angles earlier in the turn which is allowing me to carve tighter turns on steeper terrain. "The tip is your brake" is something that Harald has said to me several times and I really got it, felt it and could use it this past week of skiing. Off piste, I have wanted to do slalom turns off psite with energy popping me from one turn to the ext. This has eluded me. I thought that my feet just weren't fast enough, but really it was the lack of Upper body and hip CA forces. I skied in 15 inches of pow last thursday and it was effortless in the steeps because when I flexed (and tipped) the CA forces were essentailly creating the edge change for me and I could do this at a much quicker pace. Clearly, this is not the ultimate test because 15 inches of fresh is much easier to ski than a chpopped up bump run. But it ddid hlod up here when it hasn't in the past.

This is a pretty siginificant breakthorugh for me and the ground work took about 12-15 days of dedicated work. I am not ready to say that my NSPP and my upper body and Hip CA will hold up in all terrain just yet, but I know that I have altered my skiing and that counetred hips and upper body is now occuring naturally without thinking and focusing on it. It's pretty clear that with another season umder my belt (next year) with this in place, I have a great chance to fully solidify this change so that it becomes permanent and so that it will hold up in the most difficullt terrain.

My notes will be the key to keeping all of this for next season. I took 3 pages of extensive notes when I was working with Harald and I have added to them as I have been working on this. It's pretty simple, do the drills, do them correctly and take notes so that you remember the keys.

It's obvious that the best skiers have the most fun out there. The better we get the more fun we have!!

[rwd]

I have also been working on CA this season; specifically applying CA with the hips and torso during the float, just before re-engagement. It has definitely improved my speed control. However, when I watch the videos posted here of very quick SRT's I don't see the CA of the torso happening after the release in the high-C portion of the turn. I am wondering if this is just a visual illusion, or if the CA is not started until close to the fall line in these quick turns. Should I be trying to vary the degree or timing of CA with different radius turns, or just keep working on applying it after release until it's second nature? Thanks

[jbotti]

I think we would need to see the specific video. I spent a good amount of time with Max and Harald looking at WC pics and video and early counter and counter held right up to and after the release is evident in the best skiers. Hirscher is a great example. It is easy to see him hold his CA late into the release and he brings it back quickly when the edges have changed. When we look at slalom flushes, where edge changes are occurring quickly, I am not sure that I am capable yet of having my hips reach solid CA on each edge change. I believe that the best skiers get some amount of CA on each edge change.

I think others who have this more in place in their skiing may be able to add more than I can at this point.

[jepoupatout]

What do you mean by the NET ( no energy turn), I never hard that expression before.

[jbotti]

The no energy turn is the result of high CA forces which occur in the NSPP combined with an appropriate level of tipping. The best place to experience the NET is on very flat terrain at very slow speeds. If one does the NSPP with significant CA especially with the hips, the skis will come around and through the turn with no energy required (tipping and flexing the old stance leg is required). In many ways the best way to practice the NSPP is at TFR speeds or slightly faster. If you can tip the skis and make them come around with your weight forward (without getting it back to push on the tails) at very slow speeds on very flat terrain you have produced a NET.

At higher speeds on steep terrain, the NET also comes into play as the CA forces combined with tipping pop the skis into the next edge change after flexing, again with no added energy. This is the goal and this is a true bullet proof SRT. This is how to do slalom turns off piste to control speed in steep and tough conditions.

[Matt]

Inspiring post Jbotti. You just motivated me to work on CA next week, which is my last for the season.

[h.harb]

John may not have reflected exactly what he went through to make the changes. He had to completely give up anything he was doing presently doing and have total faith in the change. in other words he had to be ready to feel like a beginner and like he lost his previous way of skiing.

We worked this for two days straight, and did many different drills and approaches. John makes it sound easy, but I can tell you it's not. The other thing that happens when you truly learn to CA at engagement and transition, is that the tail of the ski at first skids, then you learn to stop the skidding by adding tipping. Once you get it, the ski really accelerates, because, I mean it doesn't skid at all. This is something many skiers have a hard time adjusting to. You have to add tipping as you build your CA early in the turn. Then you have to be ready to move the hips forward with the skis, forward down the fallen. So there is also a fore/aft component.
This takes guidance from a qualified PMTS instructor, this is very difficult to accomplish to achieve by yourself. So if you are going out to work on your CA alone; be prepared to be fooled into doing it incorrectly and being satisfied with an incorrect result. Sorry, I'm not trying to be negative here, just realistic, but this is not a "Phantom Move" type change, CA takes coaching and a real understanding of your body movements and ski interaction changes.

[Smackboy1]

Where can we see examples of the NET? Is it on the Performance Free DVD?

I'm a bit confused, is the NET something new that is not in the Essentials or past PMTS materials, or is it the natural end result of an existing technique done perfectly (BPSRT?)?

[h.harb]

The NET or the ZET (zero) is not new, it's just a new name I came up with this year. It's a gravity turn (two footed release) at the highest level. It means no twisting, no pivoting, no steering and no rotary movements. Just pure performance without the hype.

[jbotti]

Quote from Harald:
"We worked this for two days straight, and did many different drills and approaches. John makes it sound easy, but I can tell you it's not. The other thing that happens when you truly learn to CA at engagement and transition, is that the tail of the ski at first skids, then you learn to stop the skidding by adding tipping. Once you get it, the ski really accelerates, because, I mean it doesn't skid at all. This is something many skiers have a hard time adjusting to. You have to add tipping as you build your CA early in the turn. Then you have to be ready to move the hips forward with the skis, forward down the fallen. So there is also a fore/aft component.
This takes guidance from a qualified PMTS instructor, this is very difficult to accomplish to achieve by yourself. So if you are going out to work on your CA alone; be prepared to be fooled into doing it incorrectly and being satisfied with an incorrect result. Sorry, I'm not trying to be negative here, just realistic, but this is not a "Phantom Move" type change, CA takes coaching and a real understanding of your body movements and ski interaction changes."

I will agree that it was not easy. What was easy was seiing how important this change was and how much it was going to help my skiing. Seeing that makes/made it very easy to commit to spend the arduous and somewhat painful time necessary to acheive the result. We did work for two days and I was brought back to a beginner level and at moments in the midst of this it is mentally painful. Lucky for me, I have been to this spot before with Harald and I know that only good things happen when you break things down to this degree (as long as you have the right coach to build you back up!). What is also very clear is that when you set to out acheive and perfect the NET/ZET, every essential gets challenged and if there are weak links in any one of a skiers essentials, this will come out in doing this work (I could not tip in a Super phantom with my hips countered. I had to work for 20 minutes to find the right muscles to use, starting with stationary practice, then in garlands and the finally in linked turns). This is why Max says just do the drills over and over all the time, because the better the skier we become the higher level each essential needs to be. Add in a higher level of CA that has not been present and you will now need a higher level of tipping, a more specific way of flexing (I spent almost half a day working on just flexing my old stance ski instead of flexing the old strance leg while increasing the flexion on my inside leg which drops my hips further and putts me in a problematic fore/aft position).

Specificity of movement is a term that Harald uses often with me. The essentials are essential. After they are in place then begins the quest to be incredibly specific with the timing and the amplitude of each. This is where when one gets both right (the correct timing and amplitude of each one) you can start skiing at a very high level. I also agree with Harald, at least for me, finding that specific timing and amplitude is not easy without a great PMTS coach. Now that I have spent several days working on it with Harald, I have a much better sense of how to play with this by myself.

Still, even if it was real hard work and I looked bad for a good chunk of it (and I fell about 10 times in 2-3 days, usually at less than 5 MPH), I come away amazingly excited about the change and more importantly pumped at how much change can occur in 12-15 days of dedicated work. If anythng that is the message, 10 days of focused, dedicated (and correct work, this is key) will create huge progress for all skiers.

[h.harb]

This is a realistic explanation of what happens. John, really hit it when he said, "the stronger your other Essentials are, the easier (less painful) the learning".

John's persecutive, is as it will be for most, that he felt like a beginner. This is a real and honest regression for the student, however, not so for the coach. The coach, in this case, it was me, sees immediately the transformation rather than the anguish the skier sees or feels.

I immediately identify, what to the skier feels like beginner movements, as cleaner movements and a more refined energy use. Even if these movements at first, are rather unrefined. There is nothing more obvious to my eye, as inefficient body movements that steer the skis. This diminishes the skiing quality and the skier. This is why PMTS has developed into the ZET system. There are no extra or unneeded movements that diminish your skiing quality, in PMTS.

Specificity of movement is a term that Harald uses often with me.

Without this, there is only wasting time, learning incorrectly and becoming more frustrated. Accurate movement identification, specific individual body movements and awareness of those movements, and precise feedback or correction, are the keys to all motor sport, learning and change. John and I worked toward these goals, at a high level of sophistication. This was only possible because John already has a high degree of understanding and has worked on many aspects of his skiing on his own. This develops self-awareness. Another example, I could never have helped advance MAx501 as quickly had he did, without his background of all those drills and exercises. He came back from session to session, well prepared, which dramatically shortened his learning curve. If you want to become an expert skier, that is the fastest way I know how to do it.

[Matt]

The other thing that happens when you truly learn to CA at engagement and transition, is that the tail of the ski at first skids, then you learn to stop the skidding by adding tipping.

What a great statement. I can almost feel it without skiing.

This takes guidance from a qualified PMTS instructor, this is very difficult to accomplish to achieve by yourself. So if you are going out to work on your CA alone; be prepared to be fooled into doing it incorrectly and being satisfied with an incorrect result. Sorry, I'm not trying to be negative here, just realistic, but this is not a "Phantom Move" type change, CA takes coaching and a real understanding of your body movements and ski interaction changes.

No PMTS coaches in Sweden I suppose? I must convince my wife that I need to go to Hintertux next year

[cheesehead]

I must admit I am having a little difficulty grasping what the difference is all about. You have described what you are doing as a radical change but you describe it as basically counteracting. But didn't you counteract before? What is different about what you are doing now?

I understand how difficult it is to verbalize these things, and you probably have enough words there already. What would help would be some before and after images -- either still or video, to help me (us?) figure out what is radically different.

I am not criticizing, it sounds like you have something really great going on, and a great start on passing it along to the rest of us.

[jbotti]

Yes, in many ways it is all about CA. I had some decent CA on one side and very little off piste on the other (and some amount of rotation would take over). My hips were hardly ever getting in a CA position. Perhaps the real breakthough is in the process of working on CA through perfecting the NSPP and the NET. So yes the very simple and short answer is that CA will do wonders for your skiing (epsecially in the hips if it has been absent) and the way to get this at a high level is throgh perfecting the NSPP and the NET.

[h.harb]

What we added to John's counter acting is active movement of the hips into counter rotation. So much so that it actually affects the skis. This is the extreme version of CA. We gave up early engagement to achieve this.
Then we brought back early engagement with foot tipping, while active CA was in process of being generated. We had to go through this as on John's left turns he though he was CAing, but it was mostly with his upper body, not hips.
I know this is hard to comprehend, as it's not easy to describe in words, but what I can tell you; it's totally different from holding CA. John now knows how to move into CA, to get ahead of the turns, with CA in the High C, so that rotation doesn't take hold, this can still be challenging to achieve when in the most difficult situations and conditions.

No body teaches this. That's probably why it's hard to understand.