Defensive/Offensive -- Foundations of PMTS movement pedegogy

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Postby Pierre » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:28 pm

Look when it comes to the primary movements they are well articulated in the instructors manual. An instructors manual is a little more like a text book than something like "Anyone can be an Expert".

One of the things I am starting to like about PMTS is the cert process is directly on whether you have master of the primary movements and have a student centered approach at that level. If you have a green student and a green PMTS instructor, that instructor should be as good as he/she is a teacher. This is not necessarily true with a PSIA level 1 or II intructor. The standards there are on grasp of the core concepts and general ability to follow the teaching model. The level of performance is much wider for acceptability.

Its the Micky D approach. Anyone can make a hamburger but how many can make it the same every time. Do the Micky D approach produces good intructors at the lower levels much faster. With the aveage instructor in the business for only 2-3 years, that is a very good thing.

Now this back and forth comparison to PSIA and PSIA bashing is not healthy for PMTS. It alienates the very dedicated people who have the wherewithall to embrace PMTS, break down the barriers and take this to the market.
Pierre
 
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Postby Harald » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:48 pm

On the topic of learning theory, teaching and conveying information through assigning feelings to skiers that they should be experiencing has huge limitations and more often results in a breakdown of motivation and focus.

Am individual?s feelings are personal and vary enormously from one person to the other. This is the essence of instructor focus rather than student focus.

Clear and concise movement guidance through use of external cues is considerably wiser and more effective. The comparisons of these approaches are not that new or revolutionary.

Documentation and research exists on the topics. The research and documentation of the results on these studies are from scientists in England and the US. If you are interested I can provide you the names of the Universities and professors that conducted the studies. I know and have worked with the studies and professors who did the research on external cues with skiers in the US. The results are indisputable.

Results:

1. No movement instruction at all, has proven to be more effective and quicker than movement instruction that directs the student toward how you should feel to perform correctly.
2. External cues resulted in the students having the fastest, easiest results (less confusing and less going down the wrong road).
Harald
 

Postby BigE » Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:52 am

After Haralds post, it looks like PSIA bashing is not what it is about. If you consider the PSIA approach as the benchmark, and then address the problems while keeping the positives, there is no bashing. Just an improvement. One must start development of an improved method somewhere.

Also given the inertia that Ott speaks about, it's no wonder wholesale changes to PSIA instruction are not in the future....
BigE
 
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Postby Pierre » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:34 pm

Harald wrote:On the topic of learning theory, teaching and conveying information through assigning feelings to skiers that they should be experiencing has huge limitations and more often results in a breakdown of motivation and focus.
This is right on the money and nowhere is this more evident than how much tongue pressure a skier should feel when initiating turns. The difference can vary wildly due to fore aft alignment of the skier, where the skiers CM is in relation to the ski, type of boots/skies and placement fore/aft of the bindings.
Pierre
 
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nice thread

Postby fuzzy » Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:47 pm

Hi y'all

I've been following your postings with some enthusiasm. For my own sanity, I'd just like to throw in a question. Is there ever a situation where we would want to give less than the one best movement? German students, home schoolers, skiis too long, dressed for antartica, child, adult, group, private, motivated, or unmotivated: do we ever want to give less than the one best movement?

I agree that BB's serindipitous luck with "come here" has little relevance to the skier's ability to reporduce the movment. "Lucky movments" like that happen every once in awhile. One of the falacies of teaching is that we would think we could say "come here" and expect any similar result. We would be stupid, however, to miss the opportunity to capitolize on a lucky move.

fuzzy
fuzzy
 

touch me, feel me

Postby Harald » Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:47 pm

I am revolted to think that any instructor has the right to mess with people as you are implying. How much time and client money do you think you can waste before the magic moment will appear? Will the skier have any context in which he or she would duplicate that movement, even if they happen on a magic moment? No, you would be stupid, inconsiderate, and self serving if you set up any skier to be a guinea pig for your experiment. If you ask the person if they are ready to be used in your fantasy and they agree to play your game, you may have the right and permission to do so, other wise you are a moron, incompetent and totally self-serving. Don?t worry though, as you would be in good company, as PSIA advocates unguided, mis-discover as a teaching approach and philosophy.
Harald
 

Beautiful turns

Postby Joey Bag O » Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:50 pm

Harald,

Most of the time you are 100% right, but this time I must disagree with you. The other day, I was teaching this lady how to ski and I said, ?Hey lady, ski over to me.? So I was wicked surprised when she skied over to me. She made a few pizza turns, then all of a sudden, she banked over, rotated into the new turn and twisted her skis beautifully. She could have passed for a demo team member. It was pretty sweet. I?m such a great teacher. You PMTS guys are wicked jealous.

Joey Bag O? Donuts
Joey Bag O
 

Postby Harald » Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:28 pm

We who teach PMTS are wicked jealous of you guys! Thanks for all the help.
Harald
 

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