Wiping out and Ski Racers

[polecat]

.... They don't really have any reverting to old movements because they dont have any.

All your skiers under 8 years old have been trained to ski parallel from the very first time they were ever put on skis?

[Matt]

.... They don't really have any reverting to old movements because they dont have any.

All your skiers under 8 years old have been trained to ski parallel from the very first time they were ever put on skis?

Yes in our program, but of course some have some habits from their parents. We have a "fun" program for 5-7 year olds so when they get into the race program they have already learnt how to ski parallel. Some of the children have fear issues and can revert to old habits, but I was thinking more about the children that take risks and fall a lot mentioned above. They are fearless and have not reverted back to anything in a few years, and I doubt that they ever will.

An example, the other day we practiced dolphin turns for the first time with a group. The two most fearless kids fell a lot in the beginning, but at the end of the session they could pull off some pretty impressive dolphins. That was not true for the more careful children.

[Max_501]

I know what Matt is talking about and see it with the junior racers too. There are a group of fearless kids, very fast, that fall alot. They take bigger risks, sometimes it works, and sometimes not.

[jbotti]

There is one thing that seems absent from this discussion and it is actually one of the essentials (although the least talkekd about one). If you look at the video where I wipe out, this is caused by one flawed essential and only one (it had nothing to do with how much I was flexing or not flexing). If you load the ski which will make it kick or rebound AND YOU ARE AFT, you will not be in the proper position to handle the kick and the rebound. In others if you bend the ski and it kicks and you are aft, you are most likley to go down (as I did). However if you are centered over the ski, when it kicks it just pushes you off the ground (and the skis will remain paralell to the snow) or it can easily be absorbed with some agressive flexing. When you are faft you can flex all you want, but if the kick is big enough you are in for a cowboy moment and most likley you are going down.

Today with my skiing where it is now, I go down almost exclsuivley from getting aft and I rarely go down for any other reason. Good skiers that stay in proper fore aft balance don't go down all that often in my opinion.

[Matt]

Jbotti, interesting. I tried to see why you went out in the video but it was quite difficult. It all happend quite fast. I had a feeling that you had a bit too much weight on the inside ski in the last turn, and that that pushed you to aft. Could that be the case you think?

[HeluvaSkier]

It's been awhile since I watched the video (@ work right now), but I recall a steep pitch and then a crash in the flat after the steep section... so It would likely be the result of the compression. Considering the speed jbotti was traveling at... this would make sense.

[jbotti]

The section where I went out of control is still steep. It would be nice if we could call it compression that I didn't see coming. Unfortunately it was all user error. I was back some, the skis kicked and because I was in the wrong position (not perfectly centered over the skis) when they kicked I lost control. I was going very fast and the kick from the SS Kers at those speeds is significant. I ski the SS's regularly and they buck like a bronco when you load the ski. If I am forward on the skis when the buck there is no issue other than some real pop and a fun ride. In the video you can clearly see the moment where I get back and I am pretty much immediately launched. If you look closely around the 14 second mark my rear drops just a little too much back (and it is only for a split second and my rear is nearly on the ground behind/aft of my right boot). I may have been more on my inside ski, but I think that had little or nothing to do with it. The lesson is simple, at those speeds if you load the ski and get back watch out!!

[chrisw]

My wipe-outs tend to be like the video of Monster where I pop out of the heel of my stance ski binding. It doesn't happen often but not much fun when it does. Usually the ski is pointing directly down the fall line when it releases and the ski remains while I continue down the mountain on one ski. It happens so fast that I have a hard time reflecting on what happened. I assume that I am rushing the turn and probably trying to twist the ski down the fall line and rushing to get to the BTE. Does that sound right? Is that what happened to Monster on his wipe-out?

[François]

I fell a lot my first few days skiing. I learned that falling hurts.

I think it is fine and fun to push the limits and get some adrenaline flowing, however it is also dangerous. You have to do a personal balance of the cost verses rewards, and find a compromise. It's hard to approach the edge when you don't know where it is, and going over it will certainly show you where it is, but you don't have to go over it. I would suggest pushing yourself to the point where you need to make recoveries, instead of to the point where you wipe out.

Another thing to remember is the hormones involved in exciting or scary skiing do not assist learning, they actually shut down part of your brain, so that your "reptile" brain can have free reign. Try do do some learning skiing that is fun but not uncomfortably scary.

[Max_501]

The previous post makes a great point and one that I've adopted after a hard fall late last season. I was working on putting my hip on the snow when the fully loaded outside ski broke free at the bottom of the arc which resulted in a heluva-release. Not fun. Since then I've backed off the ultra big angles. I get plenty of fun when my hip is 8-12" from the snow so no reason to push it to 1".