teaching pmts to a preschooler?

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teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby cauthers » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:47 pm

I have a 3 1/2 year old daughter who started skiing last season. I learned how to ski over 30 years ago on straight skis and was amazed at how quickly she picked up parallel turns. I use a harness that attaches at her waist and she has naturally learned how to adjust her body to turn without learning a wedge. I now have a problem. She can't slow down or stop and I don't really want to teach her a wedge. Can I try to teach her PMTS at such an early age? If so, how can I really do it? I need to teach her how to slow down and stop somehow. She kind of knows her right and left but some of the other terms are a bit tough for a 3 year old - outside edge, etc. My son is 6 and is carving like a beast using the PMTS methods modified for his age with games. Please help?
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby h.harb » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:49 am

Teaching kids is different, you have to physically get down on your hands and knees in the snow or at home, and move the skis and boots for them, to show examples of what you want them to do. After you repeat the movements enough times while giving them verbal cues; they can begin moving or trying to move the same way as you manipulated their equipment. Also, after that, use visual cues. Watching videos is great for kids, but they have to watch them all the time, for it to sink in. You have to use your imagination and create experiences for them through movements. Just like we do at Camps with Adults. But with adults you can explain what they should do. This doesn't always work either as we know.
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby h.harb » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:51 am

If you do a search, you will probably come up with more, since I know this has been discussed before on the forum.
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby cauthers » Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:26 pm

Thank you! Sometimes it is hard teaching her because she is very independent. I almost have to juster her experiment at times. Does your book have more in the chapter about teaching kids? I was considering buying it for reference for later at least. I just don't think I want to teach her to snowplow if she already knows how to turn. Thanks again!
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby h.harb » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:14 pm

My books and manuals do not go into much detail about teaching kids, I think you are on the right track. With someone who is independent appeal to her motivation. Is she really interested in keeping up or skiing like her brother or like parallel skiers?
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby cauthers » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:16 pm

My son skis parallel and has learned how to carve pretty well using your methods modified for a 6 year old :) She wants to be able to go up the big hills with him and ski down just like everybody else. She isn't into going slow down the bunny hill even though she thinks the magic carpet is pretty cool. We've tried follow the leader but she tends to do her own thing. Bribing with gummy bears usually works to get her to do something we want her to do instead of her own thing. So we do it once in a while so she will learn a new technique. We have taught her to put her hands on her knees and push them to the side to get her to turn and it has helped a bit. I was thinking of trying to to your step out of the fall line tomorrow but modifying it into a follow the leader marching game.
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby cheesehead » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:19 am

cauthers wrote:.... Bribing with gummy bears usually works to get her to do something we want her to do instead of her own thing. So we do it once in a while so she will learn a new technique. We have taught her to put her hands on her knees and push them to the side to get her to turn and it has helped a bit. .....


My ski club teaches many kids as young as 3 or 4 but they use a PSIA french fries/pizza kind of technique. They "save" parallel techniques for the older kids, but as you would guess they push the skis around instead of edging.

One thing I have seen for teaching turns that works up to 8 yrs old at least is putting down stuffed animals to mark the turns. Food bribes work well too.

Hands pushing on the knees to create tipping sounds like a great way to get started.

I think young kids just aren't geared to picking things up by video -- not enough "real world"
--- aka John Carey
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby h.harb » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:14 am

Cheesehead, you don't know me very well. I would not post anything about learning skiing, if it had not worked. Video for kids does work, maybe not for you or your kids or maybe you haven't even tried it yet, but don't wreck it for others.

I know it works because I have families who use it and they find that the kids relate to the movements demonstrated in the video, when they are brought on the hill. This saves the parents the explanation. The kids already know what a "Phantom Move" is for example and they follow the parents and try the movements, like lifting the foot or ski. The kids also start to use the terminology so they are far ahead of the game.
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby cauthers » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:23 pm

cheesehead wrote:...they push the skis around instead of edging... I think young kids just aren't geared to picking things up by video -- not enough "real world"


I would agree that most of the young kids do push their skis around instead of edging but pushing the knees over for my son helped. We also did the two footed release type exercise with my son. We had him hold himself on the hill on his edges, release to slip, and then grab his edges again to stop slipping. It helped him tremendously to learn what his edges really were since he was only 5.

I do think kids can learn from video but I think it is more helpful to learn from watching other kids instead of adults. I also think that the videography has to be done carefully and making sure that there are enough closeups, slow motion, labeling to point out the movement. The movements also have to be deliberate with small kids. They can't really grasp the "finer" points, but I wouldn't expect them too.

I think the teddy bear idea is cute but I don't want to go back up the hill to get them :) I thought about having her touch her boot buckle to help her tip too.
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby cauthers » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:30 pm

Thanks for the suggestions! We made progress today! The gummi bears worked for bribery but the biggest thing was the incentive to get off the leash and be a "big" girl.

Here's what I tried and see if there are ways to improve:

I had her squat down a bit and put her hands on her knees and push them to the side that she wants to turn. Pushing them both together seemed to help her transition from turn to turn somewhat. She still somewhat braces herself and has trouble getting the uphill ski on its little toe edge. She's almost at a snowplow mode with the uphill ski on the big toe edge. Can get her to switch sometimes but I think she's afraid to to it or it just isn't natural enough. A bunch of times I know she caught her uphill edge because she turned sharply and surprised herself. One time she even went right into the snow bank!

I also thought of trying to have to squat down, hold her arms out and then lean over to touch her outside of one of her boots with the same hand. I know I shouldn't call it airplane because she might think she is going to turn the opposite way.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby cheesehead » Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:18 pm

h.harb wrote:... maybe not for ... your kids ... but don't wreck it for others. ....



Exactly correct -- my experience with my 2 kids. Every kid and every family is different with these things. I apologize for generalizing when it certainly was not appropriate.

Actually my older kid (daughter) is a snowboarder. The 10 year old son is a natural skier. I have not given up on him wanting to tackle PMTS style skiing. I don't think he is on a terrible path yet, and may be ready for that approach in a year or two. Maybe even this season if he gets the urge.
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby cauthers » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:04 am

I don't understand the need to wait to teach them PMTS. They certainly can't do all of the drills but my son is only 6 and does a good portion of them. He likes it because it makes skiing more enjoyable for him. He can tackle any black diamond at the smaller resorts and even did great on a double black (just steep no bumps) at Stratton. He doesn't know care if it is steep or not he just knows that he has to keep his form good or else he'll wipe out.
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby Max_501 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:52 pm

Double post but figured this should be in this thread too:

Prior to discovering PMTS about 10 years ago, I spent a weekend teaching the kids a wedge and I noticed that every so often one of them would make a nearly parallel turn. This clued me in that something was different about the shaped skis and after a bit of research I found the PMTS books/videos.

I asked my kids if they would like to learn how to ski like an expert. They said yes, so I showed them the PMTS videos and asked if they would like to ski like Harald. Again, they said yes and I pointed out that Harald was teaching us how to ski on the video and if we did the things he said we'd learn to ski just like him. They were ages 5 and 8 when we started. Many of their friends skied blue and black runs. So they wanted to ski those runs too. This was great because they were motivated to learn to ski so they could ski those runs like their friends were allowed to do. I explained that once they learned ABC and did it well on a green run then they could move to the blue run. And then once they learned XYZ on a blue run they could move to a black run. I think it was roughly 40 days on the snow before they skied their first black run. By the time they skied their first black run they looked amazing. The next year they started racing. I didn't do anything special, I simply followed the steps from the Expert Skier 1 and 2 books.

Note: it took a couple of years for my 5 year old to get rid of the wedge entry move. That big toe to big toe movement pattern can be hard to shake.
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby h.harb » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:25 pm

The biggest mistake parents make with their kids in skiing, is taking their kids to a hill too steep and to advanced. This is usually a totally selfish endeavor. Think about what you are doing, you are bored, you may see some advancement for your child, after introducing some free foot tipping, so you are encouraged. But the hill is small and you aren't skiing. So, you think it would be a good idea to go to the easy, blue slope, to get in a few more turns, but in reality, you are in for a bad time. Your child will freeze up, develop a huge defensive wedge, and hate skiing, and worst, hate skiing with you.

Always remember something that may not come naturally, when you take your kids skiing, it's not about your skiing, it's about your kid's experience with you, with skiing. If you keep them on slopes that they are comfortable with, and show them you like to ski on those slopes with them, you will be a winner in your kids eyes. If you do this, you will raise your kid's with a love for skiing, with you.

If that is your motivation?
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Re: teaching pmts to a preschooler?

Postby Max_501 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:49 pm

h.harb wrote:The biggest mistake parents make with their kids in skiing, is taking their kids to a hill too steep and to advanced.


I see kids in a full snowplow coming down blue and black runs on a daily basis!
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