Eski's " Phantom Move "

PMTS Forum

Postby jclayton » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:15 pm

Nice bit of hatchet burying . I hope this doesn't get too general or we won't have anyone to "stir" . ( An ingrained Aussie habit )

Ott ,
I think you would have to agree a hell of a lot of instructors just go through the motions . Most wouldn't even read a forum like this . You or Rusty for example ,even though you don't agree with everything in PMTS , do seem to be motivated teachers . I have to agree though that PMTS wouldn't go down well with a large number of beginners because they would have to think too much and they mostly just want to be able to get down whichever way is quickest .Plus they have no patience with drills . I know I took many group classes in the first few years . Among the more motivated skiers though PMTS will eventually take over the world .

By the way when I was in France , Les Trois Vale?s , last season an awful number of French instructors were teaching the "Austrian up-unweighting" , many to private clients . The French system , by the way ,
has the main requirement that instructors must ski a slalom within a certain time limit set by a member of the national team .
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Ott - the difference in perspective is:

Postby John Mason » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:41 pm

I find it interesting that you think Eski would have any problem with my comments.

He may or may not. I can't speak for him. What I find interesting is that there is not one single thing in Eski's book that is contradictory to PMTS. The appendix as well is directly out of the PMTS instructor manual.

I have found that PMTS is spoken of by it's critics as being limiting. Since Eski's book paraphrases PMTS so well as applied to the all mountain environment, I have always seen that book as an excellent rebuttal to that false critique. Craig McNeil's book is another example.

Also, since Eski uses his own words to describe these movement patterns it's a nice correlating book to review for anyone interested in primary movements. In that whole discussion on EWS turns on Epic, Eski starts out with this very turn as the basis of his whole approach to all mountain skiing. ie - shift to the LTE early and let the body's crossover engage the BTE of the stance ski.

He also has great photo montages showing precisely what is being done.

Also on epic, where he has not posted a lot, I have pulled up from Goggle's cache are set of posts he did where he rejects the idea of active steering for shaping turns and describes how controlling the amount of phantom edging is all you need for that.

I don't see anything contradictary at all. The appendix in Eski's book is a great PMTS drill guide.

Just curiours? Who was the other PMTS oriented coach at epic events?
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Postby milesb » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:21 pm

Rick H and Arcmeister were coaches at the first epicski academy.
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Postby jclayton » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:32 pm

An interesting detail , the "greek recovery" metioned in the Deslaurier's book looks a lot like the recovery Skiersynergy found improved by automatic free foot tipping. I reckon It would need the speed of a free foot move to perform quickly enough as well as the rebound from the skis .
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Postby skier_j » Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:21 pm

Arcmeister as been to both events.

I'd guess---without proof positive that some of the ETU coaches have been influenced by PMTS or at least race bred coaching.
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Postby Harald » Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:31 pm

Jclayton, it is strange that you should state that beginners would find PMTS too complicated, as every beginner who takes PMTS after PSIA says PMTS is much simpler and easier. Not just my experience, but every instructor who has taught PMTS.
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Postby jclayton » Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:15 pm

Harald ,
I'm just basing my observation on my experience and my attempts to help family and freinds . I will have to defer to your experience on this . I would actually be very curious to see some first time classes . Have you ever thought of videoing some so the doubters can see them in action . All we have seen are you and other experienced skiers demonstrating beginner tecniques . I`m actually trying to get some friends who have never skied before to start basic moves on carvers .
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Postby Harald » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:08 pm

Jclayton. Please send me an e-mail and I?ll return to you an attachment from Ski Area Management Magazine, describing classes of beginners skiing blue slopes parallel after three days. They were skiing Green the second day with parallel turns. Keep the wedge over there where it belongs.

HH

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