Footbed - which one ?

PMTS Forum

Footbed - which one ?

Postby AverageSkier » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:31 pm

I'm currently skiing in "down-under" off-the-shelf footbeds and I'm considering having a custom one made. My local shop works mainly with "Instaprint". Anyone has experience with that system? What are the pros and cons between this and other footbed systems different systems? Does anyone know what Harald uses for his footbeds?
AverageSkier
 

Postby tommy » Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:39 am

Correctly made footbeds & alignment can make a huge difference in one's skiing, at least based on my own experience. Balance and overall techique can improve a lot with correct alignment, for me the difference was huge.

I got footbeds made for me at camp, and the one's Harald & co. make, are made based on a LARGE set of various measurements of your feet AND lower body. The measuring process takes at least 1h. The footbeds are then built based on these measurements. Then, the footbeds and any canting might be modified later during camp, based on actual observation of one's skiing.

However, at least in my home turf, even the well renowned ski shop's only use a standard molding process to make footbeds, and have not even heard of canting...

So, my point is that unless your local ski shop doesn't do anything else but let you stand on the molding pads for 30 min, then you might as well save your money and stick with the std. footbeds. Of course, the molded footbeds might be more comfortable, and you might want to use them because of that, but if you want new footbeds for improving your skiing technique, then look for a shop where they appear to have some knowledge of biomechanics, and are willing to spend at least an hour or so measuring your lower body.

Good luck,
Tommy
tommy
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:27 am
Location: Waxholm, Stockholm Archipelago, Sweden

Postby Harald » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:34 am

Hi Tommy, I wish you and Minna the best. I hope we have a chance to see you both this winter. We are scheduling two camps back to back at Hintertux. The first camp is for European instructors who have requested an accreditation and training.

Foot beds:

Tommy is ?right on? about foot beds; most ski shops make a system, but rarely individualize the foot beds to the weakness or abnormalities (pathology) of your foot. Proper alignment and ski boot selection after the foot bed and measurements can put the icing on the cake, but few have the interest, expertise, and training and want to spend the time to do the complete integrated program.
Harald
 

Postby tommy » Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:43 pm

Hi Tommy, I wish you and Minna the best. I hope we have a chance to see you both this winter. We are scheduling two camps back to back at Hintertux. The first camp is for European instructors who have requested an accreditation and training.


Harald, attending also this season is on our "wish list" - we both consider the camp as the highlight of the season. I'll contact you be email later on.

Cheers,
Tommy
tommy
 
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:27 am
Location: Waxholm, Stockholm Archipelago, Sweden

Postby wolverineNorb » Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:22 pm

Harald : this topic is of interest in as much as today's conventional wisdom appears to be the go to softer footbeds to allow some limited ankle movement within the boot to tip your skis laterally to turn. In 1995 I had a custom set of what would be considered rigid footbeds made by Chris Korich who, at the time was in Oakland, CA. and, who is now I hear in Vail doing more or less the same thing. I spent at least 7-10 hours in the process of having these footbeds made. They were and I think are, great. My feet were comfortable and supported. I felt stable in the boot. Now I find this is no longer any good. As I am presently looking for new boots, I really do not wish to discard these footbeds but they appear to be inconsistent with the characteristics of new lateral boots. What do you think?
wolverineNorb
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:44 am
Location: San Ramon, California

Postby AverageSkier » Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:01 pm

wolverineNorb,
that's what I was getting at...

My local shop has a very good reputation when it comes to alignment and footbeds. They are doing a lot of work for local racers and I think they know what they are doing. I agree with the statement, that it is not so much the system, but the person making the footbed that determines the quality of the end product. But not everyone has the luxury to come to Harald's shop, so I was planning on working with them. They use mainly Superfeet, InstaPrint and DFP.

If I recall correctly, I saw some posts stating that Superfeet Corks are not optimal, because they are too rigid, not allowing the feet to work properly. That's why I inquired about the InstaPrints. Are they (and the DFPs) considered "non-rigid"?

The other question I have for Harald: What do you think about the statement of one of the bootfitters in my shop saying "that superfeet are not too rigid, if they are made correctly..".
AverageSkier
 

Postby wolverineNorb » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:52 pm

AverageSkier : My local ski shop uses Instaprint. This shop, is listed as an ABB certified by MasterFit boot fitter. I live in Northern California. If you go out of this forum to the main realskiers.com web site and hit the link to equipment and then hit boots you will find a link that will tell you based on where you live where an ABB shop is located. I agree that since I don't live near Harald's I will have to go this route. The bootfitter at my shop wants to take my rigid footbeds to the Nov. 1 Masterfit session because he wants to see how they react to the fact that for 10 seasons these footbeds have been great for me despite their rigidity. NO discomfort at all.
wolverineNorb
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:44 am
Location: San Ramon, California

Postby jclayton » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:53 pm

WolverineNorb,
no discomfort but how's the ankle articulation inside the boot , can you pressure the boot sidewalls to start turns .
skinut ,among other things
User avatar
jclayton
 
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:37 pm
Location: mallorca ,spain

Postby wolverineNorb » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:20 pm

jclayton : I have been thinking about your question. I don't think I ever consciously articulated the ankle to initiate turns. I merely point my knees in the direction I want to turn and they go. If that involves ankle articulation I am not aware of it. Based on reading everyone's posts about PMT, I do not think I ski at all like that but I was taught how to ski old school with 200 cm stick skis with extreme upper body counter rotation, exaggerated unweighting techniques and locked legs. Sounds like torture by today's methods.
wolverineNorb
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:44 am
Location: San Ramon, California

Postby jclayton » Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:07 pm

Whoa,
WolverineN , get your reading glasses on , read the books and try it out . I also learned the traditional way and at nearly 50 changed , the last few years have seen an undreamt of improvement .

All racers today use softer footbeds and ankle articulation , well I don't know if all do but the best ones do ( Schlopy et al ) . See Haralds article in the members section .
skinut ,among other things
User avatar
jclayton
 
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:37 pm
Location: mallorca ,spain

Postby wolverineNorb » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:40 am

jclayton : I guess that equipment now dictates the method of teaching or improving one's skiing. Sounds like a trip to the bookstore to pick up Harald's book. If there is one thing I really would like to improve on it is extremely steep bump skiing. If PMTS can help with that it would make my day. Shaped skis have already made tree skiing so much more enjoyable and rejuvenated my interest in the sport. I guess I should go with the flow on the issue of footbeds since so many of the posters here are far more knowledgeable about PMTS than I am. Still, I hate to discard my old footbeds.
wolverineNorb
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:44 am
Location: San Ramon, California

Postby milesb » Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:36 am

the "expert 2" book has some really good stuff for skiing "extremely steep bumps".
YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH78E6wIKnq3Fg0eUf2MFng
User avatar
milesb
 
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Los Angeles

Craig McNeils little book too

Postby John Mason » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:55 am

Craig McNeils Little white book has a large section on bumps too.

I hear he is a top notch bump skier. He writes in his book that he didn't think his bump skiing could be improved, but after working with Harald he said he found he had more control and much more ease in doing bumps.

If your new to PMTS I'd recommend books 1 and 2 plus the videos. A very well spend investment.

Here is the link to Craig - http://www.techsupportforskiers.com/pub ... _craig.htm

Amazon usually stocks HH's books and dvd's. If your ever in his area he usually has some DVD's for sale at his shop.

Another good reference is Eric Delauries book Ski the Whole Mountain.

I found them all useful. Seeing how the different authors paraphrase primary movements helps in the understandings. Check out page 110 and 111 of HH's Book1 for a perfect illustration and description of the Super Phantom turn. Minute 20 of his second video really shows in stop action the dynamic of shifting early to the LTE of the uphill ski.

Have fun! (of course at the all mountain camps, bump skiing is a focus)
John Mason
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:52 pm
Location: Lafayette, Indiana, USA

Postby Harald » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:40 pm

The new approach to skiing, is integrating boots, footbeds, alignment and movements. Footbeds depend more on the individual foot rather than the hard vs. soft footbed issue. We make harder more supportive footbeds for skiers who need more control of the foot and softer footbeds for skier who need more range of motion. Most footbeds bought in ski shops have only one option, usually a fully posted rigid material under the arch. We support the foot at the heel and at the forefoot if needed. The arch should allow movement for the ankle bone to apply leverage to the side of the boot. Recently many world cup skiers have skied without footbeds because they found the ones they were using too stiff and posted. They want movement in the foot so that they can apply more leverage to the side of the boot. This understanding is rare and not acknowledged by most instructors and ski shops, so don?t expect any smiles when you go into a ski shop and ask for a heel supported footbed that allows foot and ankle eversion. You will also get strange looks when and if you ask for a lateral boot.
Harald
 

Postby Guest from NC » Fri Oct 29, 2004 8:29 pm

I have Harb footbeds and I went through their alignment system. It is totally the opposite of what I was told by my instructor and the ski shop in Breckenridge. They had me in hard footbed devices that moved my foot and pressure to the outside of the ski boot and then they tried to align me by shaving the boot inside the other way.

When I went through Harb?s program, I left with strong heel support, but a cushiony arch that let my foot move naturally. My first ski turn was completely different from anything I ever felt, I could balance on my inside edge and my skis held on the ice. I tried the one footed traverse and immediately could keep my skis from skidding downhill. I used to fight the edge and the skis.

It wasn?t cheap, probably $300 with everything, footbeds and boot planing or whatever they call canting. I did it by appointment, but I think according to the web site, you can get it done during the camps.
Guest from NC
 

Next

Return to Primary Movements Teaching System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], MSN [Bot] and 2 guests