Not related to two foot pullback in any way

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Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby MonsterMan » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:29 pm

"holding" the feet back through transition to stop them getting forward then is a different movement to a re-centering pull back later in the arc.

This could be a big breakthrough for me because I was trying to get forward through transition which to MA reviewers looked like an extension, but to me felt like a pullback. I think if I tone down the pullback, only using the hammies to hold the feet in position the tails won't get so light and I'll be able to "feel" them.

If this works when I hit the snow I insist on getting an extra round for all financial members of the HBC present at the first afternoon meeting.
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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby Max_501 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:18 pm

I aggressively pull my feet back at transition. And in conditions like bumps, steeps, SL gates, and crud the movement is quite strong. As the turn progresses I hold the outside foot back while continuing to pull back the inside foot.
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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby MonsterMan » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:44 pm

'got video?

seriously, it would help a lot to see this from side on.
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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby Max_501 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:17 pm

MonsterMan wrote:'got video?

seriously, it would help a lot to see this from side on.


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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby MonsterMan » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:33 pm

Thanks for the video Max501.

It's quite clear from this video that in the dynamics of a turn the tips can be loaded without the feet being under the hips. That's where my understanding was wrong. I was off on a tangent thinking I needed to totally re-centre during transition. This two foot pullback through transition is to hold the feet from moving further forward. The re-centreing timing is later through continuing to hold the stance ski back and strong inside ski pullback.

Would you agree that there is a slightly different re-centering two foot pullback that can be used later in the turn? In this case, the knee can open as you pull back.

Image

Image

Harald, these stills are from the fore/aft dvd, please let me know if you don't want them posted for copywight reasons and I will remove them.
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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby Max_501 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:47 pm

The sequence is pull the feet back at transition (as shown in the video linked above). Continue to pull back the inside foot as you tip it and flex the inside leg. As a result of the inside leg flexion/tipping, the outside leg will lengthen naturally to maintain contact with the snow (you may need to think of holding the outside foot back if you are getting aft after the release).
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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby h.harb » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:00 am

The exercise (photo above) is to get a skier to realize the movements required to get hamstring, foot, pull back. The exercise also establishes a movement and a range of movement that they may have never before experienced, that range is often an eye opener. When you combine it with a transition, (edge change under the body) you don't get the leg extension. This example is in a traverse or a straight run without a turn.
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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby h.harb » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:47 am

"holding" the feet back through transition to stop them getting forward then is a different movement to a re-centering pull back later in the arc.


It's all part of the same action, however if you don't hold or pullback in transition, you won't get it done later. Once you are on edge the skis are headed toward the falline, the only thing you can do is maintain; (by inside foot back) it's really difficult to get "more forward" after or in the falline, ("later in the arc").

I think you are confusing the extension you get, at the top of the arc, (on the new edges) with a need for more or less pullback. It' s not about pullback in your case, it's about tipping with the lower body and CB with the upper body. Your tendency has been to extend at the top of the arc, don't know which you are trying to achieve, but it may be one of these two. to get edge grip or pressure. You don't want either of these in the high C part of the arc.
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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby BigE » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:54 pm

Harald,

You say we don't want edge grip or pressure in the High C?

I'm officially lost. Can someone help me understand this?
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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby Max_501 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:00 pm

Don't extend or push to create grip or pressue. Let it come to you. Avoid any push off or early extension looking for grip. Learn to balance on skis that are upside down (high c).
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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby BigE » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:08 pm

That is not a problem. That's what we're doing --- "DON"T PUSH" is the rule. You can resist, but not push.

But, we're balancing on our edges in the Hi C part of the turn: there is edge grip and there is pressure. To me that's ok. I guess Harald was referring to the extension in the Hi C, not that edge and pressure should be absent.

Thanks Max
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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby HeluvaSkier » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:18 pm

BigE,
Max, above has it right, but what he is describing is much easier said than done. Even I still fight pushing on the skis in my turns. When I don't push on the skis though - my skiing comes to life. If you've never felt what not pushing really feels like - the only way to make sure you're not pushing is with video. I can count on one hand the coaches I know that can spot a push in someone's skiing - even a subtle one - especially at full speed (meaning not slowed down on video).

To put this into terms that might make more sense: In the high-C you want edge engagement. This is however, not where the skis will really 'bite' into the snow as they are not loaded yet. You can still be on a tipped edge and turning, without trying to force that edge into the snow to get that immediate grip. Instead wait until the turn "comes to the stance leg" as you extend it. As soon as you feel the pressure build at or just past the fall line, release. Fight the want/need to brace yourself against an edge-locked ski for any length of time. The high-C engagement gets more turning done early so you CAN release early and preserve the momentum that you have acquired. All that needs to be done in the high-C is balancing on the tipped edge and waiting for the turn to come to you [and of course TIP!]. The big thing you need to pay attention to is that you're tipping and establishing CA and CB in the high-C because there is no doubt you're going to need it once you come into the fall line. Otherwise... can you say hip-check...?
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Re: Not related to two foot pullback in any way

Postby Jeet » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:17 am

Max_501 wrote:I aggressively pull my feet back at transition. And in conditions like bumps, steeps, SL gates, and crud the movement is quite strong. As the turn progresses I hold the outside foot back while continuing to pull back the inside foot.


Just would like to comment on an old post. Holding the outside foot back and pulling the inside foot as the turn progresses was a big game changer for me the other day. I was the at the Snow Centre and the conditions were horrible, hard cruddy snow + some bumps (man made snow). I could never skii this before. I would usually leave along with 97% of skiers when it got difficult or just complained about the snow conditions. However, yesterday I was skiing these condition with some ease and it was fun :)

Two things were I thought were interesting. I could feel my hamstring were a bit sore due to both feet pulling back and my heels just a little sore (this dissipated withing 10 minutes of me taking off my boots) . That was my external cue, if I could not feel the pressure of my heels against the boot I was not pulling back strongly enough (On both feet).

Strangely holding the stance foot and free foot back suddenly did wonders for all the other movements, CA,CB tipping. Plus I was achieving the float and felt rebound from one turn to the next (with a TFR).

I went back home and did some dry land exercises, i was now using different muscle activations to achieve the moments. It felt like I discovered a big secret.

Holding just the free foot back did not cut it for me.

Questions (Are the statements below accurate?)
************
1. Holding the free foot back - that meant I was achieving the arch lift and tilt + helped my counter acting?
2. Holding the stance foot back - did good for fore/aft balance? I felt the tips engage sooner, there was more angles without too much angulation (Not a PMTS term I know)
3. Concentrating on holding the stance foot back - this gave me counter balance as I you can not do this whilst leaning into the turn, you have to be over the stance foot is this was to happen? + for some reason this seemed to help my counteracting. (Been doing some hip/pelvis flexibility exercises)

PS: I have done some DIY work on my alignment. I know Harald does not recommend this but I had to. I purchased canted heel and toes for the Solomon XMAX 100. The canting was not enough so I added + played around with adding credit strips, one strip at a time then skiing on all conditions (except steeps + pure powder as I am in the indoor snow center). In the end I found I need 2 strips of credit card on my left leg and three on my right leg. Although this may not be the perfect setup it's better than what I had before. As for the foot bed, I have an off the shelf super feet black (best possible choice for being in London as it's a low profile and low volume footbed?)

It felt something like

Bolter suggested the following dry land exercise,

"Stand with your heels and butt against a wall. Establish a stance and free foot by lifting one foot off the floor. While pressing the free foot's heel against the wall behind you, keep contact and pressure while sliding the heel up the wall. This approximates the movements required to keep the heel/foot under the hip while closing the hip, knee and ankle joint. Does that help or is it "off the wall?"

You should also progressively/actively close the ankle joint more and more as you bring the foot up the wall and closer to your hip. "


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