Carver Camp - Golden CO

[John Mason]

Just a quick report:

cold and drizzle meant use the ski coat not the jacket. Made getting the protective gear on more challenging.

Personal - got to explore what has been an issue for me on the hill - why turning right is easy and turning left is not as easy. Learned a new way to simply skate - start on LTE of outside leg and roll in to BTE as you push off. Very interesting sensation and much longer push per stroke.

Of note: PSIA former demo team member in attendence and a PSIA III cert. (see - we all love each other)

Report, everyone got a lot better. Focus points were focus on LTE for initiation and BTE will take care of itself. Not just the SP way, but we did weighted release type drills as well. Drills for using either inside or outside foot to support turn.

We learned what the "hipometer" was. This was an adjunct to a discussion on counter, vs counter balance, vs square, vs over square. This helped me the most as I was doing counter balance my weak turn direction vs counter in my strong direction. Going ahead and letting counter happen on my weak direction improved things a lot.

Lots of people fell. Everyone got back up. I'm glad I had my wrist and knee guards on. They performed well!

Harald expanded his discussion on stance with on slope illustrations.

Fun time for all. I can't wait to see how this affects my skiing.

[John Mason]

Day 2 - Everyone is getting so much better. Most here would not recognize the before and after, it's so different.

The short "foot" compared to a ski, the lack of any "cheat" effects of snow, magnify any weaknesses in technique. My slight difference in left vs right turns that I was hoping to get worked out as a camp goal, in the carvers was an extreme difference. Ends up my fore to aft balance was good in one turn direction, but not in the other. On skis, this is masked and I could get away with it. On carvers any weakness in fore/aft balance are magnified. Likewise, given the nature of the carvers, pivoting, twisting, or steering don't work.

In the morning we work on drills. We all are drilled on releasing the downhill carver by removing pressure and tipping to generate the transition and new turn. We also work on more advance things like doing full circles on the LTE only of either foot. We work on quick edge change, counterbalance alone for turns, counterbalance with counter for turns.

Many of us try the top model carvers which are quicker. Everyone that tried them liked them because they react quicker, are quicker in speed, and are smoother. A number of people also thought they were easier to skate back uphill with.

We spent the afternoon doing a very round course that througout the afternoon very gradually morphed into a slalom course.

This took 3 hours with course adjustments about every 10 min. Everyone made massive improvements. We became quicker in edge change like boiling a frog in water the change was so gradual. But like the frog being boiled alive without realizing it, we were all carving at a level that many of use would have only dreamed of achieving before the camp. Personally I exceeded what I thought I would achieve.

Diana and Harald on these things are amazing to watch!

Because of the lack of long lifts, the magnification of any weakness, immediate negative feedback with incorrrect movement patterns, many here that have done ski camps before are forming an opinion that there is a lot of bang for the time spent in this camp forum.

Personally I am taking the camp for 2 reasons. I want to feel safe and in control carvering in my area back home, and I wanted to explore my left vs right bias. I'm on day 2 and am comfortable I have achieved those 2 goals. I am in anticipation of what I'll discover on the 3rd day.

(then on the 4th day transfer the concepts to skis at Loveland while they are still fresh in my noggin!)

Robert, Jeff expressed that you would have loved this.

Oh, SCSA brought his dogs today, but they didn't get on the carvers. (though they did challenge our balance as they are big dogs and like to say hi by jumping on you)

Lunch was at a nice italian restruant with video review, then causal drinks afterwards at about 6pm morphed into unplanned supper. Everyone had a great time.

[Rusty Guy]

Give SCSA my best and ask him to e-mail me

[John Mason]

(sorry Rusty - SCSA was not able to come day 3)

more drills - one footed balance drills - then salom, much more agressive than set up yesterday. It took awhile, but everyone was able to do this salom consistently after about an hour. Then they set it up as a "flush" drill. Not everyone could do that (me included). However, both Diana and Harald did it with one foot (show offs ).

But, most importanly, I now know the secret inner meaning of Robert's handle and salutation. But rather than piggyslayer, piggysquealer would have worked. We all made sure we let the piggy breath !!

(I've heard lots of cues in skiing - but this is now my favorite!)

(edited for spelling - disclaimer - not all speling has been corected)

[jclayton]

John,
I like your descriptions of how you advance with the carvers it all helps us who have no direction or feedback . What is a "flush " drill ?

[piggyslayer]

John,
Thanks a lot for all these updates. I wish I was there ....
We just couldn?t make it this year. We will try next year.

Robert, Jeff expressed that you would have loved this.

You bet. I think next year it is more important for us (me and my wife) to try Carver camp then to go for a camp in winter.

But, most importanly, I now know the secret inner meaning of Robert's handle and salutation. But rather than piggyslayer, piggysquealer would have worked. We all mad sure we let the piggy breath !!

If I remember correctly, Jeff had squealed on how the piggy slayer name came about in one of his earlier posts . I wish I had a web server for hosting pictures ... I have some skiing with my piggy.
I added small shims under Carver binding on the BTE side and my piggy is doing much better .
One thing good about Carvers is that it is so easy to experiment with alignment (not that I am advocating other people doing it on their own without professional help/assistance).

How many hours of skating did you do each day? Going up and down without rest is really exhausting.

I too would appreciate as much info as possible about the drills.
Did Harald/Diana revealed any info on when we should expect Carver DVD?
Is flush a set of slalom gates set closely one after the other?

John, thanks again for keeping the rest of us informed about the camp.

Robert

[John Mason]

cones in a line, must switch edges instantly to negotiate

hmmm - for a set of drills - we were in two groups with drills oriented for where we were. On the last day we combined to a single group as many couldn't be there for day 3.

It would take a lot of writing to go over all the drills we did. I believe Jay has or almost has a full suggested drill progression he is posting. This would be better than rattling off the specifics of the drills we did.

Yes - there is no lift. You definatly find out which muscles are used for skating uphill. The camp was 3 hours friday 6 hours saturday and 3 hours sunday. That's on "slope" time. We had a 2 hour lunch saturday with video review and carvered later than scheduled Saturday.

Diana got lots of good videos and pics - she was going to be putting some of these up.

Most of the drills, without getting into detailed specifics, had the goals of tipping first to LTE of the inside foot while similtaneously removing the pressure from that foot. Yet we also did multiple edge and balance drills for instance doing full circles on the LTE of the inside boot with the outside leg just providing now and then motive power.

I liked the descriptions and expanations of why the PMTS drills (ski and carver are very similar) are designed the way they are. This would be very dificult and lengthy to get into here. For instance, most PMTS's know that we start narrow and in a one footed style. Yet in powder you can be much more evenly balanced or even do the weighted release all in the context of PMTS. All of these turns, however seemingly different share a release and turns created by shifting balance.

[piggyslayer]

But, most importanly, I now know the secret inner meaning of Robert's handle and salutation. But rather than piggyslayer, piggysquealer would have worked. We all made sure we let the piggy breath !!

I should comment on the Slayer part of my name. I was upset with my skiing when I decided on my forum alias. Both me and my wife (especially my wife) love animals and the fact that she still puts up with me is the best proof that the word ?Slayer? is very, very metaphorical description of my skiing and nothing else.


John, how do you do 360 on one (or two legs)? How come you don't stop you will be going uphill after first 180!

Robert

[Hobbit]

The exercise is done on a pretty flat slope.
You push-off with the outside foot while ballancing on the inside foot LTE.
This is a slow speed exercise so you can use the poles to help on the uphill part of the circle.

[Jeff Markham]

John has done an excellent and accurate job of reporting on the Carver camp.

I would add that this camp has an extremely high value-per-dollar and value-per-hour. Ordinarily, my skiing improvements come after a PMTS camp. However, this camp differs in that improvements are almost immediately realized. I believe that this was true for all participants.

I think that there are contributing differences to a Carver camp, as opposed to a PMTS ski camp.

First, the feedback from Diana/Harald is continuous and immediate. There are *many* more repetitions of the exercises, with corresponding more opportunities for feedback.

Second, the communication itself seemed better (to me at least). Whether it was the lack of distraction, the warm weather (at least on Sat-Sun), or the acoustics, I found it easier to hear and listen.

Third, the playing field itself is "compressed" as opposed to ski runs. We were able to observe others performing exercises while Diana and Harald provided audible feedback. Also, we had multiple opportunities to see both Diana and Harald perform the drills. This is frequently a watch-it-or-miss-it situation on the ski slopes. We had frequent opportunities to hear Harald and Diana discuss an exercise while they were demonstrating it.

As Hobbit has said, with the respect to 360-degree exercise, we were "scootering" around a mostly-flat circle on our LTE. However, it is pretty easy to do 360-degree turns on the Carvers once you get going.

<indignation>
I did NOT spill the beans about Piggyslayer's nickname. Or am I having a senior moment? <g>
</indignation>

As an added value, Harald did some intentionally funny demonstrations. You would have had to have been there...

It was great to see John again and get a chance to meet Hobbit and SCSA and make new PMTS friends.

Dang, that black snow is hard! I will never be afraid of falling on the white variety again.

Obligatory mea culpa: The Carvers illuminated my tendency to scoot the free foot forward. Something to work on. I will pull the free foot back. I will, I will, I will...

[Harald]

Thank you for the kind words about our recent PMTS Harb Carver Camp. Diana and I are very pleased with the progress we saw. It was beyond even our expectations. This is not simply minor improvement like a rounder turn or less wedging, (you can?t wedge on Harb Carvers). I am referring to real changes in skiing movements, ability and balance. We know most of the participants, we know how they ski and we know what is required to make good turns on Harb Cavers. The skill developed by the participants through Carver training this weekend was remarkable and measurable. Participants ranged from a beginner skier to an ex-PSIA Demo Team member, in-between that range, were intermediates, instructors and expert skiers.

We saw objective improvements as measured by many different set-ups of cones as slalom gates. We saw improvements in edge change quickness, body balance in turns and angles of the boots/Carvers to the ?black snow? surface. All of these areas improved dramatically. I know the results will really become apparent when performance on snow is measured. Skiing should improve beyond what we saw on the Harb Carvers, as the Carver movements transfer directly and they require more accuracy than snow skiing movements.

Training on Harb Cavers is the new way to achieve rapid skiing progress. We had a virtual beginner in the camp. By the end of the weekend he was making short carved turns through the cone slalom course. This was done with skis, sorry Carvers, parallel and with the same angles with both boots, inside and outside (skis) Carvers. This skier will be confident and comfortable making parallel turns on snow immediately, yet has never been out of a wedge in his previous experience on snow. This is truely cutting edge technology and the partcipants and instructors of this new way to learn, are taking ski instruction to a higher level.

The Carvers allow training to be conducted in a concentrated area, in a city, all year round. You don?t need long slopes or ski lifts. Carver training is supported by creative exercise lines and balance exercises. The tool is perfect for duplicating skiing balance, releasing and transfer movements at slower speeds than on snow. This is a safe, fun, engaging, subsitute for skiing.

The Carvers give the skier immediate feedback about quality of movement. Skis don?t provide the accurate and obvious feedback that help you to distinguish between desirable and ineffective movements. On Harb carvers those same inefficient movements detract from making good turns and they are immediately noticeable by the skier.

Because Carvers turn when the Cg is outside the little toe edge and turn well only when the Cg moves from outside one little toe edge to the other, attempts at steering, rotary movements, foot twisting and up-down pumping, don?t work. Finally -- a ski simulator that rewards good skiing and the rigth movements.

Balance on the outside foot works and so does counterbalancing of the upper body. Harb Carvers develop awareness for appropriate upper body movements and movements that start at the base of the kinetic chain. This combination makes skiers perform at a higher level on snow. I am thrilled at the results and am confident that every skier who wants rapid skiing development, is a candidate for a Harb Carver training program in the future.

Thank you to all participants, for your dedication and trust. Harald Harb

[Jim]

Personally I am taking the camp for 2 reasons. I want to feel safe and in control carvering in my area back home, and I wanted to explore my left vs right bias. I'm on day 2 and am comfortable I have achieved those 2 goals. I am in anticipation of what I'll discover on the 3rd day.

(then on the 4th day transfer the concepts to skis at Loveland while they are still fresh in my noggin!)

John -

Just wondering what "carryover" improvement you saw during your day at Loveland?

[John Mason]

I suppose I may be the only one at the camp to ski the very next day. I'll be interested in others first ski day impression.

Basically what I found skiing was heightened awareness. Everything I did that detracted from the carvers, even if it didn't effect my skiing as much, I was aware of. Thinks like fore/aft balance, tipping first with the LTE, making sure I let the "little wheel in the front" engage on my right foot (which was my personal problem with my left turns), all stood out like a sore thumb in my kiensthetic awareness.

My first couple of turns were my old normal ski turns. These habit turns generated all sorts of feedback and I was able to make adjustments and improvements quickly. Once the adjustment were made I was just on a slower reacting set of "harb carvers".

Playing with quick edge changes doing very short radius turns was very easy.

I didn't fall any at loveland so I don't have any immediate impressions of "black snow" vs "white snow". The "black snow" at the carver camp was very hard indeed.

It was much quieter skiing at loveland. At the carver camp there was always this voice, sometimes male, sometimes female, that was somehow aware of what I was doing or not doing and made sure I knew it.

At loveland this voice continued as my own, more self aware and able to self correct what I was doing.

Bottom line, much greater awareness of my own movement patterns and balance.

[Rusty Guy]

Bottom line, much greater awareness of my own movement patterns and balance.

Having had the opportunity to see you ski I will simply say I'm at a total loss for words.

It was nice to meet you.

[piggyslayer]

Basically what I found skiing was heightened awareness. Everything I did that detracted from the carvers, even if it didn't effect my skiing as much, I was aware of. Thinks like fore/aft balance, tipping first with the LTE, making sure I let the "little wheel in the front" engage on my right foot (which was my personal problem with my left turns), all stood out like a sore thumb in my kiensthetic awareness.

Yes! this is exactly what I was hoping for, more foot awareness transferred to skiing experience.

I is clear that the improvements we have made over the summer will be visible on the slopes, but it is GREAT to hear that Carvers not only make me foot-aware when I am on them, but the awareness transfers to skis.

THANKS John.

Robert