Off Piste Skiing

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby Max_501 » Thu May 05, 2011 4:20 pm

POW!

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby Max_501 » Fri May 06, 2011 8:54 am

Great shot of HH floating between turns in some challenging conditions. Note - this is much steeper than it looks in the pic.

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby Max_501 » Fri May 06, 2011 2:50 pm

jbotti rockin' the 184cm Shamans

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby BobH » Sun May 08, 2011 8:41 am

Nice pics guys.
That's some good inspiration for next season.

I'll be in shorts and making ice cream for the next six months.

After that back to the River and the Loaf for more skiing!!

If anybody from the forum is ever in southern Maine, stop in and introduce your self.

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www.SundaesAtTheBeach.com
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby Max_501 » Thu May 26, 2011 4:21 pm

Diana ripping on the Shaman's:

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby Japow » Thu May 26, 2011 7:32 pm

Well, I know this is going to create conflict, but the most recent photos in this thread look pretty average to me, for all the talk of counter acting/balancing and no swing pole plants, the last photo of Jbotti looks fully inclined, and the photo of Diana looks like she's dropping her inside hand and going for a big swing with her outside. I am not wishing to attack PMTS here, just say that if people are going to be put up as poster children they might want to be able to walk the walk...

Am I really the only one who sees this?
HH says: You are the only one who's stupid! Get a life and go figure out skiing somewhere else. You've been brain washed by the best, Epic Ski.


HH response: This guy is an idiot notice how he disappeared, right away. He's a plant. Or maybe only a vegetable. Nice post GeoffDa, you cleared this up nicely!
Hey Japaw, no conflict just stupidity!
Out!
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby Max_501 » Thu May 26, 2011 8:04 pm

This thread is mainly for posting off piste pics rather than MA. I can't think of any reason why every pic should be perfect.

Sure, jbotti needs more CB, its one of the things he works on alot, just as I and many others do.

With regards to the photo of Diana...this is great skiing showing terrific upper body discipline. The inside hand is not a problem and the pole swing is clearly not disrupting the upper body discipline demonstrated. Plus, in snow that deep there is going to be some pole movement.
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby Max_501 » Fri May 27, 2011 8:39 am

Diana rocking the Movement Pariah. We both really like this ski for off piste skiing. 126-93-114, R=22M


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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby jbotti » Fri May 27, 2011 11:36 am

BTW, that was one of the epic days of the season in Montana this year and Harald, Max and Diana were all there. We had 18 inches overnight and top of at least a foot the day before. It was a Thursday and there was no one on the mountain. Fresh lines all day!! Certainly a good visual memory for all to carry with them through the summer!!
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby geoffda » Fri May 27, 2011 12:00 pm

Japow wrote:Well, I know this is going to create conflict, but the most recent photos in this thread look pretty average to me, for all the talk of counter acting/balancing and no swing pole plants, the last photo of Jbotti looks fully inclined, and the photo of Diana looks like she's dropping her inside hand and going for a big swing with her outside. I am not wishing to attack PMTS here, just say that if people are going to be put up as poster children they might want to be able to walk the walk...

Am I really the only one who sees this?


I'd agree with you on JBotti (as I'm sure would he), but I'm not sure what your point is. Nobody is holding that frame up as being a reference for anything except a good time. Unless you have skied with JBotti, I'm not sure how you could take a single frame out of a single turn and conclude that he isn't "walking the talk". I know for a fact that I made more than one turn today that probably looked like JBotti's frame. I also know that I made hundreds where my counter balance was where I wanted it. Not only did I make a whole lot of turns today that I liked, it gets better every time I go out. I'm sure JBotti and Max and any other "poster child" for PMTS would echo that sentiment. Moreover, every season I get orders of magnitude better and have more fun as a result. Given that perfection isn't in the cards, what more could you want?

It's pretty easy to catch the best skiers in the world looking bad, so if you want to poach single frames, what chance do any of us mere mortals have? What I can tell you is that serious PMTS students do their best to "walk the talk" whenever they ski and it shows. You can always spot a PMTS skier on the hill and higher level PMTS skiers get consistently asked how they learned to ski so well. I hear it enough that I've started carrying Harb Ski Systems business cards in my pockets. Make friends with a PMTS student and ski with them on a regular basis and you will begin to understand why many of us are such fanatics about it. We ski differently because we are taught differently and when you start paying attention to the progress that people are making with PMTS, it is frankly unbelivable.

The difference with PMTS is we're all about inputs. The inputs matter more than the outcome. I was skiing bumps on a FIS legal race stock slalom ski the other day and as a result, I couldn't handle the energy well enough to keep snow contact with the ski. An observer would say that the vast majority of my turns were pivoted. But such an observation misses the point entirely. My first movement is always to go to edge. Now if that happens when I'm in the air, then yeah, a pivot may happen due to rotary effects, but it isn't because I'm twisting my feet. When I come down, I'll be on edge in the high C.

Your observation about JBotti being inclined is correct, but what matters isn't that he is inclined. What matters is the affect that will have on his balance and his ski performance. PMTS isn't about creating cookie cutter skiers who all look the same. It is about teaching people the necessary movements to extract performance out of the ski. For lower level skiers, that means learning rote movements like counter balancing. For higher level skiers, it translates into using the movements necessary to get the desired performance out of the ski. I haven't skied with John, but I can tell you with confidence that the picture would look considerably different on hard pack.

The difference between PMTS and just about everybody else is that our first instinct is *always* to go to little toe-edge at transition. The mindset is always to go from one set of edges to the other without direction change. Whether that actually happens is irrelevant because we are *always* using the movements that will make that happen to the extent that it is possible. That is what high C carving is all about and it is why you don't see high end PMTS skiers hopping their turns in difficult conditions.

While you can bust on JBotti's shot all you want, you can deduce nothing about his skiing from it because he isn't in the portion of the turn that matters most. Moreover, there are plenty of skiers that look world class through two thirds of the arc, yet we would not consider to be great skiers. If you want to know whether somebody knows how to ski, watch their feet at transition. Is their first movement to go to edge or is it to twist? Are they getting grip and controlling speed above the falline or are they steering into it and accelerating? High C engagement is what matters most, so that is the place to start when it comes to understanding whether you are dealing with a skier or a hack.

BTW, you are way off base with Diana. Her shoulders are about as level as you will ever see from anyone, so it is not possible for her to be dropping her inside hand. She is pushing forward with it, which is entirely correct (though it does cause it to drop relative to the elbow). You might be wondering if she is about to leave it behind, but I'm not. I'm pretty sure that the next few frames would show her continuing to drive her hand forward as she increases her counteracting. As far as the no-swing pole plant, that is exactly what it looks like at the falline. Her wrist is cocked and she is ready to make her next pole plant well ahead of when she will actually need it. She will need nothing more than a wrist flick when she is ready. I can say these things because I've skied with Diana and I have some understanding of the inputs that are involved to ski the way she does.

Oh yeah. THANKS FOR THE STOKE! These are some great pictures!
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby Max_501 » Fri May 27, 2011 6:43 pm

jbotti rocking another pair of fat skis (sorry don't know which skis we were trying out when this was taken)

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And for anyone questioning jbotti's ability to CB

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby jbotti » Sat May 28, 2011 3:31 pm

The first thing I said to myself when I saw that picture was: "wow, that is totally lacking any CA and CB". So anyone that points that out is right on the money. And, I would expect nothing less from people on this forum as all of us are here to improve our skiing and to be honest with ourselves about we are doing well and where we need to continue to work. I do happen to like the shot aesthetically and that is why I think that Max threw it up (with my approval).

On the subject of CA and CB and where I need to improve, I did write several long posts about some of the really hard work that I did with Harald around this and what the process has been like to learn and perfect the NSPP. Japow if you haven't seen it or read it, here it is:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3365

Lastly, I do think what separates this site and PMTS from other ski sites and teaching methods is that when the skiing isn't up to standards not only do we want to hear it but we can all own that this is the case. Again, I appreciate it when someone points out when something is out. I hope to get to the point when I can look at a bunch pics and video from a day of skiing and it will be hard for me to find glaring faults as large as was evident in this picture, but obviously I am not there yet. I am however pumped about next season because I really believe that my issues with CA (very prevalent on turns to the left/right leg stance leg) will be vastly improved from the work I have done and will continue to do.

If only I lived in Bend and was still skiing this year!!
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby Max_501 » Sat May 28, 2011 6:27 pm

Dr Rick rocking the Shamans in some seriously set up manky PNW crud.

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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby geoffda » Sun May 29, 2011 8:14 am

[quote="Max_501"]Dr Rick rocking the Shamans in some seriously set up manky PNW crud.

Wait. How is it possible that he can ski crud without hopping? :mrgreen:
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Re: Off Piste Skiing

Postby Max_501 » Mon May 30, 2011 6:07 pm

DEEP...

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