milesb wrote:Here are a couple that illustrate this turn pretty well:
http://www.websurd.com/epic2004/video/esa1.wmv (rob sogard)
http://www.websurd.com/epic2004/video/esa02.wmv (weems)
Note that not all the turns are the "perfect turns", see if you can tell which ones fit Barnes' definition.
In the topic about teaching the wedge. These two videos were offered. Some of the discussion seemed to imply that these were seperated from PMTS turn standards by degree. That is that were just less edged, etc. However, I would say that this is not an issue of degree. They are qualitatively different. In fact so qualitatively different that I don't think they would pass any level of PMTS standards for certification.
First, I'll offer up a few questions to ask in analyzing the movements of the turns.
1. Did the skier release with the old stance ski. If not how did he change from one set of edges to the other?
2. Did the skier transfer weight from one ski to the other? If so, what movements did he use to do so/ how and when did it happen?
3. Did the skier engage the skis edges to use the carving design of the ski to initiate and continue the turn? If not, how did the skier turn the skis?
There are more that I could ask, but these are enough for now. They are standard PMTS questions that are asked about any skier's turns. In certification, the answers are compared to the skiing standards for the different PMTS certification levels.
The lowest level skiing standards are:
1. Release consistently using the old stance leg and foot as initiators.
2. Both skis maintain the same edge angles and rate change of edge angle, and the shins remain parallel during the transition to engagement
3. Both skis continue to increase angle to surface as turn progresses, using ski design to determine turn size and direction.
4. All direction changes begin with a movement toward the little toe edge.
5. The stance ski remains passive in transition and changes direction through reaction to free foot actions.
These are the green level skiing standards. However, just because they are the lowest level standards does not mean that they are easy. During certification days, skiers must do 1-5 without fail within all of their skiing and under special scrutiny while doing demonstrations. If this is not done, they are not passed no matter how many years of skiing or teaching they have behind them.
On these standards, the turns in the videos would not pass the green level skiing tests for PMTS.
Now, I hope I am not misunderstood. I am not saying anything about the skiers. They are definitely talented and athletic skiers. I am not in any way implying that they could not pass the green PMTS test. Further, they are obviously not trying to emulate those standards. I am simply making the point that the turns are so qualitatively different than PMTS standards that they are not even on the same page with a PMTS model.