Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

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Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby ibMED » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:21 pm

I've been trying the drills in Geoffda's post. On the 3rd morning, they did robo tipping. I can't quite figure out how to perform this drill. Stick it appears to be the first of the Super Phantom movements in that the LTE of the uphill ski is weighted. Going slow and poling indicate it's done very slowly and also it's a weighted release so it's done off the stance foot.

Can someone help me out of darkness?
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby BigE » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:06 pm

A guess: stick the LTE into he snow, match with the stance ski, manage the edge angles/pressure through the belly of the turn.
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby geoffda » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:07 pm

Just start poling along on flat terrain. Pick a ski and tip it to LTE (make sure you flex to do this). When you do this, put enough weight on it to side-load it (stick the edge in the snow and get some grip). Once you are on LTE, match the angles with the other leg. Then manage by transfering balance to the new stance leg (or at least ensuring that your balance is there) and standing up on that ski. Remain in the turn as desired, then tip the stance ski to flat, followed by the free foot, and repeat.

Keys to the drill are flexion of the legs and relaxation of the lower body so you can tip to the largest angles possible. If you do this on dead flat terrain and pole, your poles will force you to CB and you can add some CA as you get proficient. This is a great drill for isolating tipping movements and sequence, but also pay attention to the feeling of moving from flat to on edge and off edge to flat again.

If you can find a run that starts very flat and then rolls over, you can start with robo-tipping and then progress to skiing. I've found that this progression helps to get your lower body working well so that when the slope rolls over, the tipping that you did in isolation stays integrated with your skiing.

Does that make sense?
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby ibMED » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:39 pm

Big E, This is not Epic, guessing is not allowed. You know or you don't know.

Geoff,
I'm still confused.

Stick it. - Let's assume I'm traversing with my left foot as stance ski, right is free foot. I want to turn left. I flex and put my right ski on the LTE edge with enought weight to side load it. At this point, some weight is on both skis. SHould be a big O position between the knees. Got that part, I think.

Match it - I think you are telling me that I put all my weight on the right LTE, pick up my left foot/ski and match the angle of the tipped LTE of the Right ski. Is this correct. I would refer to this position as the classic super phantom turn Harald has show. O position has decreased. I don't think this is a weighted release position, as weighted releases are done directly off the stance foot.

Manage it - I think this refers to tipping the left foot which is now the free foot. This will cause the right foot/ski to tip to BTE. I presume that managing it refers to the correct movements of the new free foot which is where all the action is.

Do I have it right? If so, I did this on snow yesterday and it takes a while. I did it at speed, I'll try it on flats tomorrow. I also spent a lot of time w/o poles doing drills from your day one. Progress is happening. Long way to go.

Thanks for all you have done in explaining a camp.
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby geoffda » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:05 am

ibMED wrote:Big E, This is not Epic, guessing is not allowed. You know or you don't know.

Geoff,
I'm still confused.

Stick it. - Let's assume I'm traversing with my left foot as stance ski, right is free foot. I want to turn left. I flex and put my right ski on the LTE edge with enought weight to side load it. At this point, some weight is on both skis. SHould be a big O position between the knees. Got that part, I think.

Match it - I think you are telling me that I put all my weight on the right LTE, pick up my left foot/ski and match the angle of the tipped LTE of the Right ski. Is this correct. I would refer to this position as the classic super phantom turn Harald has show. O position has decreased. I don't think this is a weighted release position, as weighted releases are done directly off the stance foot.

Manage it - I think this refers to tipping the left foot which is now the free foot. This will cause the right foot/ski to tip to BTE. I presume that managing it refers to the correct movements of the new free foot which is where all the action is.

Do I have it right? If so, I did this on snow yesterday and it takes a while. I did it at speed, I'll try it on flats tomorrow. I also spent a lot of time w/o poles doing drills from your day one. Progress is happening. Long way to go.

Thanks for all you have done in explaining a camp.


You are close...

Stick it-Start with flat skis on flat terrain. If you want to turn left, pole yourself along, flex and tip your left ski onto LTE and put some weight on it so the edge sticks in the snow. Yes, you want a big O-frame and weight will be distributed on across both skis. Depending on how you do the drill, you may have most of your weight on the ski when you tip it (which would be similar to a weighted release) or you may do this more like a TFR where you lighten before tipping. Play with it both ways.

Match it-Simply tip the other foot to eliminate the O-frame and match angles. Don't lift, just tip. All you care about is getting matching angles.

Manage it-Transfer your balance back to the new stance ski (if you started by putting your weight on the ski you tipped first), otherwise just make sure your balance is where you want it. You may not have to do anything with balance at this point (depending on how you entered the turn), but if you needed to make adjustments, now would be the time. Regardless, the idea is to get grip first, then sort your balance out. Once you are in balance, you can stand on the stance ski.

The best way to do this drill is super slow on gentle terrain and to tip back to neutral (skis flat) before starting the next turn. If the terrain is gentle enough, don't even finish turns. As soon as you are on your new edges, tip back to flat and start in the other direction. This drill is about transition.

Again, the idea is sequence. Tip to LTE and get it gripping first first (stick), then to BTE (match), then make any necessary balance adjustments and stand on the stance ski (manage). Grip is the most important thing. Get grip before you try to do aything else. Gripping edges provide the platform for balance, so if you don't have grip, then there is no point in trying to manage balance since you don't have a platform to stand on.
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby BigE » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:42 am

Thanks geoffda.
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby SkierSynergy » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:13 am

geoffda has done a good job explaining.

"Stick it, Match it, Manage it" is just a memorable phrase that I use when teaching several related drills. Harald started using the robo drill to break down the tipping and balancing actions of railroad tracks more obviously. Leave feet evenly weighted when starting the drill.

1) Tip to the LTE. "Stick" the LTE in the snow by tipping it to get it gripping. The tipping knee will move away from the stance knee (O frame). This is your guage of how much you are tipping with the free foot. Many peoiple find that having weight on the tipping foot/ski provides some extra feedback for how much the ski is tipping and gripping as the ski rolls over. IbMed is correct that starting the tipping from the old LTE will make it easier to "stick" the new LTE.

2) "Match" the stance leg to the free foot/leg tipping. Now you are in railroad tracks. If you never match, the stance ski will not hook up and help.

3) There are two things you will find that you have to "manage" after matching. Pick one or both to focus on, as you wish. If you do not manage these, you will find yourself catching the LTE, falling to the inside, or just generally having a difficult time.

a) You have to manage your balance in the tipped position by adding counter balancing movements.
b) You have to manage the transfer of weight/balance from the free foot to the stance ski by relaxing/flexing the free foot leg.

I think of my tasks in a regular turn to be in the order of the phrase. Get to the LTE, get both skis gripping and then try to balance at the angles I have set. Once I can balance I know that I can get to even bigger angles. Hope this helps.
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby BigE » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:49 am

Perfect! thank you so much.

This is something I stumbled on earlier this year, when I tried to isolate the edging movements through transition. It's great for really feeling tipping. IMO, really great when mixed with the "power release" drill.
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby NoCleverName » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:46 pm

To reemphasize a point you might gloss over: start with dead flat skis on flat terrain --- you are not in a traverse.
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby ibMED » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:35 pm

Geoff and Jay,

Thanks for the expanded discussion and I think I've got it this time. On snow today, I was doing what you have outlined, with the release off of the weighted stance ski. There is a lot of learning in this drill. My simple focus has been to get as much O as possible, plus, keep tipping the new free foot following release.
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby patprof » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:13 pm

This would be a good one for Jay to demonstrate on his website :D
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby h.harb » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:23 pm

As with many exercises they often have more then one benefit. I developed the Robo exercise to demonstrate sequential foot tipping ability and also to differentiate for skiers their foot movements; so they could become more aware of which foot was supposed to begin a movement. Often I say during tipping exercises, "Too much big toe, not enough little toe edge tipping". I see this all the time, it's because skiers have little foot awareness. You have to develop the whole package if you want to be an effective skier on all slopes and snow. You have to learn to feel the difference between a flat ski on snow and a ski that has 5 degrees of edge angle on either ski, in all directions. The Robo exercise can develop this awareness very quickly.
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby gaku » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:41 am

I think this excercise deserves a bump of recognition.
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby skijim13 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:15 am

Great drill to work on early in the season when you have only flat runs available.
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Re: Robo Tipping (stick it, match it, manage it)

Postby dougtee » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:24 am

away from my dvds, but is robo tipping shown on any of the youtubes?
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