Super Blue!

PMTS Forum

Re: Super Blue!

Postby Max_501 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:24 pm

dan.boisvert wrote:Geoffda, thank you for taking the time to post these. As somebody new to PMTS, I've been trying to figure out how to go about pursuing it, given financial and time constraints. This thread has just about talked me into making time for a camp next year. By Friday's post, it might be a lock!


For 3 or 4 seasons I debated getting in-person PMTS instruction. I figured I had the books and videos so why would I need to spend the money on a camp? Yet I had this nagging feeling that I wasn't progressing nearly as fast as I could be. So I finally decided to ski with Jay (Skiersynergy) and it changed my skiing (and that of my family) by such a large degree that I started a yearly quest of receiving in-person PMTS coaching. I think that was something like 5 seasons ago. I wish I hadn't waited so long.

How far can PMTS instruction take someone? Well, now I'm a certified PMTS Blue Level Coach.
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby geoffda » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:34 pm

First, thanks for the comments guys. Forgive my lack of answering, but my post camp energy only goes so far :D . Glad you are enjoying the posts; I'm trying to put out the information that I myself would want & it seems to be working.

Day 4 dawned clear and cold. At 6:30 I checked the temperature before jumping into the shower and it was 0F. OK, not ideal, but I can live with that. 30 minutes later, I happened to look again and it was -2. Uh oh... Fortunately, my wife caught me on my way out and suggested I take toe warmers, hand warmers, and her full face baclava. As it turned out, this was the first of many valuable lessons learned today: how to maintain sufficient warmth in extreme cold. When I left the house I was wearing my heavy weight long underwear bottoms with a pair of the heaviest hot chiles over the top. My underwear top was Patagonia expedition weight. Then my Marmot shell bibs. On top of that I had a 300 weight North Face fleece jacket, a Marmot down vest, and my Rab shell. Then a heavy fleece neck gaiter, full face baclava, helmet and goggles. Hands had Marmot expedition weight mittens with handwarmers. Toe warmers on the feet (on top of the toes). With all that I managed to stay comfortable during the day. Though it was -2 when I left, the temperature continued to drop during the 15 minute drive to the mountain. At one point it was -10, but when I got to the parking lot, the temperature had risen to a balmy -8. Fortunately, there was sun and no wind, but at least on paper, today was the coldest I've ever skied. I wasn't alone on this; there were some very worried faces in the lodge as we were wondering whether we could survive a full day of instruction given the temps. And don't worry, I expect no sympathy whatsoever from you ice coast skiers. I can't help it if I'm a wimp.

Today the instructors rotated and we got to ski with Harald. While we were all very excited about this, I couldn't help thinking about how much Harald hates bad skiing and wondering if perhaps my skiing had triggered a 911 emergency call :D. Anyway, as it turned out, courtesy of Harald, today marked a giant breakthrough in my skiing and a giant breakthrough in my technical understanding of skiing. More on both later.

So the day started with my group hanging in the lodge waiting to see what was what. Soon Harald comes by and tells me to get my group in gear & that we would be skiing together. The outside air temp is ungodly cold, they aren't even loading lifts yet, but when Harald tells you to have skis on in five minutes, you get your act together and march outside to face the elements. While we are waiting for the lifties to let us on (and I'm wondering if I'm even going to make it to the first run before I freeze) Harald asks about our initial camp goals and whether they have changed over the three days of camp. Hell yes my goals have changed: I want the same BPST that Jay owns. I'm not the only one with that answer. Harald responds by letting us know that he can make that happen. I mentally review my skiing over the past three days and conclude that either he hasn't seen it, or he truly is a god. By this time the lifties finally start loading and up we go.

The top is showing a sliver of sun so we head up Lenawee for a warmup run down Dercum Gulch. The snow is aggressive and my medium wax (I couldn't bring myself to put the hard wax on because that would have been admitting that it really was going to be this cold) isn't helping my skis. I'm feeling stiff with cold and ski somewhat mindlessly, but Harald lets us warm up with no comments. In the lower flats, Harald has us do some railroad track turns to confirm that we can tip. This makes me happy because RR tracks are something I do all the time so I know I can start off the day without looking completely incompetent. I lay down some clean tracks without difficulty, but as a whole my group has some issues with counter balancing. Harald takes some time to discuss this and he introduces the pole drag drill as a remedy. He also demonstrates the proper width and position to hold the poles as well as points out that you need some functional tension so that both arms work together as a unit and tie in to the torso and hips. He demonstrates how raising the inside hand should cause the outside hand to lower and pull the torso into CB. He also recounts watching Karl Schranz run downhill and make minor arm adjustments that translated to changes in his edging. After the exploration of poles and CB is completed, we pole drag our way back down to Lenawee for a trip back up to the top.

We ski about halfway down the first pitch of Dercum Gulch and Harald has us stop. We are all tipping like crap--which is to say we are not doing it nearly enough. So we stop and Harald introduces a traversing tipping drill. The drill involves traversing the slope, tipping to max, reducing tipping, tipping to max, and then tipping to flat (to sideslip). Not hard, but you'd think we'd never heard of PMTS by the weak sauce we deliver in lieu of tipping. So Harald parks us and makes us do the static tipping drill. You know the one--just stand there, tip your inside foot over as far as you can and then match with the stance foot. I've done this drill a million times on my own and I proudly demonstrate large angles. And then Harald asks a question that absolutely floors me. "Why can't you do that when you are moving?" And then he answers his own question. "You can't tip when you are moving because your lower body is tense and you are locking up your hips and blocking your tipping. RELAX!" With that one word, my skiing is changed forever and I achieve a GIANT breakthrough in my skiing. We do the traverse drill again, and I latch onto the word RELAX like it is the last life preserver on the Titanic. HOLY $#!+! My tipping goes through the roof!

So we try a little skiing. It occurs to me that perhaps the one run I had yesterday where my short turns were working might have been the one run that I actually relaxed on. So I decide to test this and I make a conscious effort to eliminate all tension in my lower body. HOLY $#!+! I've now got a ripping short turn! As it turns out, this is but part of the story, but more on that later. In any event, I'm absolutely ecstatic. I'm suddenly in the ballpark of the turns I want to own and everything I've been working on is now coming together. Not only that, but extension starts working automagically for me. When I relax, I get short and I get long and this happens exactly when it is supposed to. I CAN SKI AGAIN!!!!

We stop in the flats and Harald tweaks the pole drag drill. We now need to push the inside pole in an arc so that we end the turn with that pole at 90 degrees off the tip of the ski. Harald is trying to get us to counter act properly and if you actually get your hands where they are supposed to be, this will happen. I come up short on this for several tries as it takes me a bit to work out the full range. I still don't have it by the time we hit Lenawee for another trip to the top. This time, on upper Dercum Gulch, Harald makes a couple of turns and asks us to look at his tracks. It turns out that the interesting track is the one that he made with his inside pole while he pushed it forward to get full CA. This track is surprisingly long and is a good visual for me that I need to greatly exaggerate this motion. In the flats, I start to get it and cranking in the CA combined with my newly acquired short turn starts to become fairly reliable. I'm definitely getting it.

We ski down to Black Mountain lodge and do some robo-tipping in the flats there. Even at pole push speeds, RELAX works like a champ and without any turn forces to balance against, I am still able to seriously tip my feet and generate some nice tracks.

Onward to Sundance, we switch to two footed releases and linked two footed releases. This was to occupy the rest of the morning and we took several runs working on TFR. I've spent a bunch of my own time doing TFRs, but I still learned some key things here. First, flatten the downhill ski first (while still hanging on to the little toe edge of the uphill ski). Don't flatten the uphill ski until the down hill ski starts to slide. The visual cue is to see a slight V at the beginning of the release. The other thing I got from Harald is a new perspective on flexing. Jay had drilled in the importance of flexing to enable the release itself and control the rate of the slip. However, it is also important to continue to flex as you tip. My transition from the sliding portion of the turn to the tipping portion wasn't very smooth and that was why.

At some point during all of this, I lost my pole planting privileges. Oddly enough, my pole plant in isolation is fine. The problem is that the very concept of a pole plant is inextricably linked to my bad old skiing self. In the deep recesses of my subconscious, pole planting is what I do to trigger an up extension. Apparently, this was creeping into my skiing when I was planting my pole. As Harald said, he can't fix that association, but what he can do is take away the movement that causes the problem. Hence, no pole planting privileges. With luck and good behavior, maybe I'll get them back tomorrow.

Incidentally, we discussed what the pole plant should look like and it was very interesting. If you push your inside pole forward to CA and finish with it at 90 degrees off the inside ski tip, that should have caused your outside hand to reside at about a 45 degree angle. At that point, if you just cock your wrist you should achieve a pole touch automatically as you flex to release the turn. Other than the wrist flick, the actual pole touch is a side effect of your release. Cool huh?

Unbelievably, it was already 12:30 so Harald suggested we hit the Black Mountain Lodge for lunch. I proceeded to demolish half a chicken while Harald entertained us with stories of his racing days.

After lunch, we headed back up Lenawee and spent more time working on linking TFRs down Dercum Gulch. After some laps, we all got them working to Harald's satisfaction and we headed over to West Wall. The run down Cornice Run to get there was interesting. My new cranked short turn was up to the task and even on some firmer spots I had no problems holding. I had edge and pressure, but it felt so not forced. It was there, but it was a completely secondary effect of my movements.

Pulling up to West Wall, we were faced with a fairly steep pitch of firm, but edgable snow that had been groomed but was slightly bumping up a bit. We did a couple of test TFRs and then followed Harald down the heart of the pitch. For my part, I wasn't patient enough and rushed through neutral which caused me to over-edge and resulted in less than optimal edge hold and not super pretty turns.

Fortunately, Harald granted us another crack at it. But first, he challenged me to follow his tracks down Cornice. Yesterday, Jay crushed me in this game, but today was another day and I made a very good run at staying in Harald's tracks. I got in my rythm and just cranked. I was right with him until I got launched by a terrain feature and landed opposite of his turn. However, I was able to figure eight him for the last few turns down. This was major progress. I didn't win the game, but today I was at least in it!

My second try at West Wall was better and worse. I got too far right and hit a bump which caused me to extend in a couple of turns, but then I settled down and made some good turns in the middle. Then I botched a turn, bailed to the fall line and then gave up and made a couple of non-speed controlled turns to finish the bottom. By then Lenawee lift had closed so we didn't get any more chances. That said, the two trips down West Wall were a very graphic demonstration on why you need to do your learning on non-threatening terrain. Other than Harald, I think all of us regressed a bit on the steeper terrain.

For the last few runs of the day, we worked on brushed carving on Ramrod. For whatever reason, I struggled with the relaxing part and never could approach the kind of angles I was getting with my carved turns. But that's OK, I can work on this tomorrow. We shot some video on the last section of the run. Most folks did brushed carves, but I wanted to see my cranked carves so that's what I did.

Video review was interesting. Overall, I was pleased with what I was seeing; the turns looked like they felt. However, in a couple of turns to the left, Harald pointed out how I was dumping my hip. In a flash, I suddenly realized that I had never really been tipping because I didn't fully understand it! This despite reading every book there is on PMTS, reading every scrap of extra information on the forums, watching the DVDs, taking a private lesson, and actually doing many of the tipping drills. As embarassed as I am to admit that, its true.

See tipping begins with the feet, but for me that had been as far as it went. I'd religously start every turn with my feet, but then I stopped thinking about them. What I wasn't getting was that tipping not only starts with the feet, it *ends* there. Every degree of angle that you get has to come from the feet. I could get angles in my skiing and I thought that because I had angles and because I started the turn by tipping my feet, that I must be tipping. Wrong. When you tip, the knees have to lead the hips into the turn. As long as this is happening, it means you are tipping from the feet and the higher joint movements are occuring purely from the kinetic chain. In that case, the hip will lag behind the knees moving into the new turn and you will be able to continue to increase tipping. Conversely, if you try to get angles by driving the hip into the turn, you will end up rotating your femur inward and blocking further tipping. This is park and ride. Angles start with the tibia.

To go with my new world view, here's my new hypothesis on why I ski the way I do. My squattiness went away with relaxation and Harald thinks my forward lean is fine. So why couldn't I buy a short turn until today? Because I was parking on my hip. Once I tipped my feet and got some edge, I'd drive my hip in. So getting the angles required for true short turns was impossible for me when I did this. I could on occassion generate short turns, but when they happened, it was because I was accidentally doing the right thing. I had no understanding as to why it worked. Now that I think about it, I'm kind of amazed that I've even been able to train slalom the few times I've tried.

As to the hip dumping in the video, it is unclear as to whether this is caused by a residual movement or alignment. My right boot is a bit strong, so it is possible that alignment is the culprit. While a strong alignment helps you tip to LTE, if you are aligned too strong, it prevents you from getting to big toe edge. So on left turns, if my alignment were too strong, then I would be unable to tip to BTE and I would be forced to compensate by dumping my hips. I think we're going to try a shim tomorrow and see what happens. Either way, the lightbulb is now firmly on.

Maybe I'm less smart than the average bear, but I'd say the above is a pretty strong testimonial on the benefits of getting personal instruction if you are serious about getting the absolute maximum improvement out of PMTS. The books and DVDs, etc. will unquestionably improve your skiing, but there are at least nuances (and at most important concepts) that need to be explained in person.
Last edited by geoffda on Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby geoffda » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:00 pm

Max_501 wrote:
How far can PMTS instruction take someone? Well, now I'm a certified PMTS Blue Level Coach.


For those not familiar w/ the PMTS certification system, the Blue Level certification means an incredibly high level of skiing and teaching proficiency. Despite the fact that there is a higher Black level certification, most folks will find PMTS Blue instructors to be among the best skiers and teachers that they have ever encountered. That has certainly been my experience.
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby patprof » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:56 am

Absolutely brilliant posts! :D
"I can't dance and I can't fly-but when I ski I can sometimes do both!"
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby HighAngles » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:01 pm

I have to join in and say that these posts from Geoff are the absolute best I've ever seen on any skiing forum. I don't know how you could possibly remember that much detail (must have a camcorder in his brain :D ).
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby A.L.E » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:06 pm

Great posts Geoff.
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby milesb » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:37 pm

Geoff, when I went to a camp a few years back I was planning on doing reports like this. Instead I ended up drinking alot with the 2 Polish guys in my group, too much fun every night! Na zdrowie!! :D
YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH78E6wIKnq3Fg0eUf2MFng
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby Max_501 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:39 pm

milesb wrote:Geoff, when I went to a camp a few years back I was planning on doing reports like this. Instead I ended up drinking alot with the 2 Polish guys in my group, too much fun every night! Na zdrowie!! :D


Ya...the drinking puts a damper on daily posting!
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby geoffda » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:15 pm

Day 5 dawned clear. Glancing at the thermometer I did a double-take: yes, that is a minus sign. It is -14 this morning and I am fully prepared to face death by ice cube on the slopes. On the positive side, it is only a half day of instruction. On the negative side, I realize that we aren't going to get any mercy from Harald. He grew up skiing far colder than this. I calculate my odds of survival and head for the slopes, praying for an inversion. As it turns out, I get one--its only -10 at the parking lot. Harald said later that it was -2 when he rolled in, so maybe my thermometer was lagging a bit. Whatever, it was still cold--though surprisingly it didn't seem as bad as yesterday. Maybe I'm just getting used to it...

First run of the day we head to the top and a sliver of sunshine. Harald lets us warm up on Dercum Gulch and tells us to crank some big angled short turns to loosen the legs up. He lays down the tracks and we follow. I'm able to lay them over pretty good while keeping my radius close to Harald's so I consider that a minor victory.

Next run is back over to West Wall to see if we can retain any of yesterday's teachings while under pressure. There is a nice section of steep grooming and the snow is good. I'm apparently a blank slate this morning. My turns are none too short and I'm not even feeling my edges until the bottom third of the turn. At the bottom, I see Harald was filming this run and I think, "well, that tape was wasted." My problem was that I wasn't getting on edge early enough, and that was occuring because I was extending my new stance leg as I was moving through transition. This was locking me up, causing me to dump hip and ruining my ability to tip. To combat that, I was flexing at the bottom of the turn (so I could tip), but flexing at the bottom of the arc just causes the tails to wash out. My flexion extension is backwards and when that happens, you ski ugly. This marks the beginning of a very long downhill slide.

While Jay kills you with kindness, Harald is like a pit bull. If you show any sign of weakness in your skiing he is on you in a heart beat. Knee touch drills with CA/CB are the order of the day. Push in on the outside knee and raise the inside hand up and out. Harald demonstrates flawlessly down lower Dercum Gulch. Mine aren't bad, but they are far from slow. I was focusing on moving down in transition and not getting squatty when I touched, but tipping went out the window while my brain was occupied and these lapses were also recorded on video for posterity.

At the top of Ramrod, Harald expands the drill to include touching both knees while neutral. No lifting of the inside hand until the inside ski is tipped on edge. With this drill, my skiing enters the death spiral. For whatever reason, I suddenly can't tip while flexed and I also can't control my tails. Over and over, I'm flailing while Harald mercilessly pounds on my weakness. At times, I make the odd decent left turn, but then I catch my tail underneath the outside ski binding trying to tip on right turns. By this point, Harald had softened my alignment by a degree on both sides, and though my position is better, it isn't helping here. We continue with this drill for a more runs, working on developing nice brushed carves. Everyone else is getting it, but I continue to struggle. At one point, I finally tell Harald, "I can't do this--I can't tip and flex at the same time." This of course is odd, since I'd been doing it just fine for four days prior. Harald is quick to correct my semantics, "It isn't that you can't do this, you just don't know how. Your skiing will take a giant leap when you are able to add this move into your skiing." At one point, he also points out that that my struggle is a good thing because of the opportunity it represents and to "relish this time." While this all makes sense rationally, my level of rationality is decreasing by the second.

Part of the problem is that I've got blinders on. I'm focused on the fact that I can't tip, instead of paying attention to the reasons--which Harald has already given me. I have tipping skills, so something else has to be going on. If I'd just relax and quit stiffening the new stance leg, it could tip and I'd be fine. But of course, I don't do that...

Finally, after another round of futility Harald suggests I try doing some tipping with my feet a bit apart to help feel when I'm stiffening up. By this point I'm a basket case and this doesn't seem to help. I'm completely confused and disoriented, banging my poles on the snow in absolute frustration because nothing seems to be working. More brushed carves down lower Ramrod. Progress? Who the hell knows...

Now that "everyone" (Harald is being generous here) has stepped up their skiing, Harald takes us back up to the top to sample the bumps on Norway Face. They are soft and wind-drifted and even I have a hard time screwing up in such marvelous conditions. I manage to make some nice, slow brushed carves down through the bumps and briefly feel like a skier again. At the bottom Harald asks me if that was different than how I normally ski that. "Yes," I say, "it was SLOW :D ".

So we move on, back to brushed carves on lower Ramrod with some focus on the hip. When I stiffen my new stance leg, and hose my tipping, I have no choice but to dump my hip in. At one point, I'm even "making" pole plants. Harald tells me to stop because its causing me to rotate, but then realizes that I'm not actually making a pole plant--I'm doing the right thing with my arms, but I'm letting my hips get pulled the wrong way which is causing the rotation which in turn results in the poles ending up in the wrong spot. To fix this, I work on proper CA and try a drill where I push the outside hip back while raising my inside arm and this seems to help. I get a few nice brushed carve tracks. I then try to incorporate this into brushed turns, but I have no idea if I got them right.

Harald wants to give us a visual on proper hip management, so we catch up with Diana and she rips some GS turns to show us what it is supposed to look like. Awesome is the word that immediately comes to mind when watching Diana in full flight.

Finally, the camera comes back out to shoot some last video on lower Ramrod. At this point is is already 1:00 pm and Harald has given us more than the promised half day. As it turns out, things come together somewhat on this run. I make some nice brushed carves, and one nasty turn where I locked up and dumped hip. Truthfully, I'm altogether surprised by the turns on video--there are a couple that are even avatar-worthy. One turn is particularly cool--there is a pole tap just waiting to happen and I'm not even doing anything! Despite my own ambivilent feelings about my skiing, the camera does not lie; Harald's relentless attack on my weaknesses has produced tangible results.

Some time after 1:00 we return to the lodge for lunch and a video review. Harald entertains us with further stories of his teaching career and I start to understand that I can "dump proof" myself with a combination of stance leg flexing and strong (and proper) CA movements.

After the final wrap up, my group heads out to finish the day. At the top of Lenawee, we catch up with Chris and Jay and chase them down West Wall. No groomer this time for me, I drop the cornice and hit the bumps which are soft and wind drifted. I try to convince myself that I focused on making slow short turns and for a minute I almost believe that. Chasing Jay and Chris back down to the lift, I keep it short--and ripping--slow is definitely out the window for the time being. Back at the top of Lenawee, Jay tells us he has to leave, so we say our goodbyes and I chase him down Norway Face, ripping up more soft bumps.

Now that speed is out of my system, we head back up and over to West Wall for some slow turns on the groomed piece. By now, the snow has gotten firm and I make about half as many turns as I intended on the way down. It turns out that we all have this problem, so we catch the last Lenawee chair of the day and declare a rematch with West Wall. I focus on flexion and getting grip early and successfully reduce my rate and radii. I can't say I was happy with my performance, but I can say it was better. I hit upper Exhibition bumps on the way down, but get overly focused on line and don't like my run. We lap Ramrod and I make some mediocre brushed carves on the top pitch and then drop the hammer to get down the remainder of the pitch to squeeze in one last run. My friends make the last chair with me. I resolve to make the last run a good one and make some nice brushed carves down the first steep pitch of Ramrod. On the last pitch, I decide to follow Martin and resolve to make at least as many turns as he does. That's when things really start working. I focus on flexion, and really work the foot tipping and suddenly my turns are coming up short, slow, and round. My friends disappear down the hill, while I'm still making turn after short turn. I'm starting to really relax and by the bottom turns, my upper body has even relaxed to the point of being upright. I keep it going into the base area and brush to a stop. Exhibition is now closed and camp is officially over.

So there you have it. Five days of the best ski instruction I've ever had. Superlatives are so difficult when it comes to PMTS. Every lesson has been the best lesson I've ever had. It was the most intense, frustrating, enlightening, and rewarding five days I've ever spent on skis. It went by way too fast and I'm sorry to see it end. I could easily keep doing this for another week, but I'm also looking forward to doing some work on my own and seeing where my skiing will go from here.

So where did I end up? I am, unquestionably, a better skier now than when I arrived at camp. I arrived with nothing more than a skidded short turn. I'm leaving with the ability to crank edge-locked short turns, and I'm well on my way towards developing a truly bullet-proof brushed turn. I learned how to make rounder turns in bumps and despite the limited time spent there, my bump skiing is significantly better. At my worst, I'm balanced and controlled. At my best, I'm fast and smooth. As far as edge-hold on ice goes, my movements have been significantly upgraded and that can only mean better hard snow performance. This was borne out to a degree on Cornice run where I was feeling solid on firm patches.

What did I learn? I learned that tipping can always get better. More importantly, I now understand the things I do that block tipping (extension of the stance leg rather than flexion and dumping the hip). I understand that if I continue to focus on my flexing, I'll be able to tip for early grip. I also understand that if I relax, I'll be able to continue tipping to tighten the turn to a short radius. Relaxation is also the key for me to allow my upper body to be more upright. I also know that if I focus on CA, I'll avoid hip rotation and further ensure that I don't dump the hip. CA puts my poles in the right place, and once everything else is under control, reinstating the pole tap will be as simple as cocking the outside wrist and letting the tap occur via flexion (I tried this a few times this afternoon and it works).

Flexing, tipping, and CA will be the things I will continue to focus on in the coming weeks. I've actually got another lesson scheduled with Harald in a few weeks, so the pressure is on to take what I've been given and continue to apply it. See you on the slopes!
Last edited by geoffda on Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:25 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby geoffda » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:27 pm

Max_501 wrote:
milesb wrote:Geoff, when I went to a camp a few years back I was planning on doing reports like this. Instead I ended up drinking alot with the 2 Polish guys in my group, too much fun every night! Na zdrowie!! :D


Ya...the drinking puts a damper on daily posting!


And commuting to camp from home (when you have a wife and small children) puts a damper on the drinking :D .
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby arothafel » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:19 pm

Bravo Geoffda...

Your "Day in the Life of a PMTS Camp" is superb. The illustrative narrative accurately puts into words what many of us have experienced at camp. Your humility and honesty represented in your own "self-talk" had me falling out of my chair in hysterics. :lol: I thought I was the only one who felt that way!

And besides all that... it's damned good writing.

I hope you will continue to post. You give "voice" to the rest of us.

P.S. For what it's worth, I haven't been allowed to use my poles in four years (I rotate). I'm still dragging 'em.
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby jclayton » Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:50 am

Miles B ,
one of them wasn't a guy called Peter by any chance ?

Geoffda ,
your posts are worth compiling into a sticky . Pleasurably coherent in the details , a lesson for Epic'ers .
In your previous post ,when you say the outside hand at 45º to the outside ski , do you mean forearm or an angle from the Center of gravity to the hand ? Also the inside pole at 90º meaning the length of the pole forming the angle to the ski ?

In the TFR which way is the V opened ? I have always tried to keep the skis parallel .
skinut ,among other things
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby geoffda » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:56 am

jclayton wrote:Miles B ,
one of them wasn't a guy called Peter by any chance ?

Geoffda ,
your posts are worth compiling into a sticky . Pleasurably coherent in the details , a lesson for Epic'ers .
In your previous post ,when you say the outside hand at 45º to the outside ski , do you mean forearm or an angle from the Center of gravity to the hand ? Also the inside pole at 90º meaning the length of the pole forming the angle to the ski ?

In the TFR which way is the V opened ? I have always tried to keep the skis parallel .


The idea with poles is that when you are neutral and your torso is in line with your skis, you are holding your poles out and in front of you. Kind of like holding a breakfast tray; you want some width. If you think of both arms as a unit, then as you CA, say in a right turn, your torso movement is going to cause both arms to move. Your right arm moves forward, while your left arm moves back. Again, the change in position comes from the fact that you are doing CA; you aren't actually moving your arms. So in that situation, your outside hand (at the finish of the turn with full CA) is probably at a 45 degree angle to your torso (where 90 would be sticking your arm straight out to the side). From there, if you just flex to release, you get a pole tap without moving. For a more aggressive tap, you can cock your wrist to 45 degrees. While skiing today, I just realized that this is going to be my new check to ensure I'm flexing enough. No tappy, no flexy! :D

In the TFR the V is what you see looking down on your skis. If you hang onto the little toe edge of the uphill ski while you are flexing and tipping the downhill ski to release, the tip of that ski will start to slide while the tails remain together and you see a brief 'V'. As soon as the downhill ski starts to slide, release the uphill ski and come back to parallel. Doing them this way seems to make the weight transfer fairly seamless.
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Re: Super Blue!

Postby h.harb » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:41 pm

Your humility and honesty represented in your own "self-talk" had me falling out of my chair in hysterics. I thought I was the only one who felt that way!

And besides all that... it's damned good writing.

I hope you will continue to post. You give "voice" to the rest of us.


Art says it right above.
We had a great camp, many new folks from as far away as the Canadian North West Territories and Australia. It was a pleasure working with everyone in this camp. Motivation for improving and changing skiing was very high. Huge breakthroughs were accomplished with PMTS movements, alignment, boot and ski changes. We had both a PSIA cert. and CSIA cert. in the mix and they were thrilled with the clarity and directness of the PMTS system.

Geoff has it right, his great reporting and a one of a kind talent for recounting, is exactly what happened. Geoff comes off at first as a witty, easy going guy just out for a few entertaining ski runs, (because he can ski) until he's challenged about his skiing. He reminds me of myself when I'm working on a new difficult climb and keep falling off at first. Sometimes frustration, sometimes self doubt, show up, but in the end, perseverance comes through and huge dividends from the accomplishments and rewards from determination are realized.

Many of you know I don't sugar coat what's happening on the snow. I represent and verbalize what each skier is doing and what needs to be done to change. The skiing, skiers learn in PMTS camps is World Cup skiing for skiers who would otherwise never realize it. This requires direct feedback about what is happening. There is little time to go down the wrong road, trying to justify old movements. I don't believe in cheerleading, I believe in honesty. Although, I get just as excited as anyone, when I see the changes in a camper's skiing and there is always plenty.

Geoff has added a new element to the forum with his posts and honest straight-forward reporting of how real skiing develops when correct movement teaching is applied. It's not just teaching, it''s first and foremost correct analysis of movements. If you can't analyze movements, you have no business teaching skiing.

I think one of the things most campers notice right away is that our coaches can ski what they teach. There is validity in the statement "You have to be able to show it, before you can teach it."
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New Sticky coming up! Re: Super Blue!

Postby h.harb » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:45 pm

Geoffda ,
your posts are worth compiling into a sticky .


I'll compile Geoff's posts into one thread and make it a "Sticky" thread.
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