PMTS All Mountain Ski Camps

[dcroxby]

Hello,

I was just checking out the info the PMTS ski camps, and am intrigued by the "All Mountain Camp". Has anyone attended one of these camps or planning on going next season? I need some instruction and it sounds pretty interesting.

Don Roxby

[John Mason]

I went to part of the Big Sky camp last year and it was great. Before the camp I didn't have a clue how to approach bumps and crud always gave me fits. The camp gave me lots to practice on moguls with a strategy for handling non-groomed terrain (which you can think of as a series of all maner and mix of bumps).

I had only skied about 1 year at the time of the Big Sky all mountain camp and it really helped. I was at the point where blues were easy and black steepness was easy, but either with bumps or worse, actual moguls, were very frustrating for me. Basically I avoided them. After my partial Big Sky camp last year these bumpy and crud blue and black situations are now just fun challenges where I look ahead and decide how I want to take them. Large mogul fields are still a challenge for me though and I'm sure I'll get lots of practice on them at A-basin in Jan.

(also, big sky was empty - even on the weekend and the snow quality was very dry)

Having gone to the other camp in hind sight I would have prefered to be on more of a salom style ski for the moguls we were practicing drills on rather than the more longish and GS oriented ski I was on. That would have made them easier to carve the short radius turns needed. (anyone try a Metron B5 yet? - powder near fat and 11m radius)

The other type of sking I have not been exposed too yet is powder sking. I ran into a 30inch powder day at Beaver Creek once last year and didn't have a clue of how to ski in that type of snow. If I run into deep powder on my own again I believe the first release we learn in PMTS would be best. Certainly my groomer carving one ski style wasn't effective on powder. So, perhaps at this all mountain camp we'll have some powder situations so I can learn from the experts the best ways to approach powder.

75 days of skiing and one day of powder. (lots of ice though) (the ironic thing was this was also the only time I went to Beaver Creek and we were going there because of their great grooming reputation. Of course, they don't groom on a true powder day.)

[skier_j]

But, like the old adage, it is not the bow, but the archer is certainly true to a large extent.

Miles will help in conditions that challenge you at this point of your skiing life. I did a 2 or 3 days last season in Utah in up to 18 inches on a Volkl P40 with 63 waist, cuz thats what I had at the time. Hindsight says I should have rented something fatter, but I did just fine (in my inaguration to powder).

I am NOT saying that a fat ski is unnessary in deep powder, just that with some additional miles, you'll do a decent job even if you have narrow waisted SL ski's. There is a difference skiing the deep, just like there is a difference skiing the bumps.

Hell, Plake still skis on over 200CM ski's in bumps all the time, last I heard.

Of course, if we have the means, why not get different ski's for different conditions? I have no problem with that at all.

[dcroxby]

Thanks for the replies guys. John, I am pretty much exactly the stage you described. I am having real problems with speed control on steep moguls and issues with chopped up steeps. I am very encouraged to hear that the classes got you past this to some degree. Are you going to attend the camp at Arapahoe in January?

I have been very fortunate in that I have hit a bunch of powder days. My first true powder day was unfortunate however. Through a series of circumstances I found my self staring down Plunge at Telluride, at least 24 inches of fresh powder and 1 set of tracks before me. Problem? I had neved skied in more than 3 inches of powder before. Basically my trip down was a series of hoops and screams ending in a burial and reassembly. I have not even come close to first tracks on Plunge again and only now realize what a coo that was.

Thanks for the info!

Don

[John Mason]

To skier_j

there is no substitute for mileage - but in regard to mileage I shall pass on the adage of my wise racquetball coach (a hh type in the racquetball field - multiplue national champ - coached the olympic trial team in co springs for a number of years and - very scientific in his approach to technique etc)

He taught that the old adage practice makes perfect is incorrect. He would state (and I'm not saying he made this up - just it was the first place I had heard it)

"Perfect practice makes perfect"

But, in any case, 1 day of powder ski conditions gives me neither mileage or perfect practice for powder skiing.

My GS ski's were ok on the moguls, just had I known how much drill work would be in that type of conditions I would have proferred a good salom ski. Plake straight lines the bumps pretty much so longer is better. I don't think anyone would suggest doing the speed run over the top of moguls like Plake does is the accepted way for the majority of skiers to run moguls. But if your going to stay in the fall line and do bumps as a series of short radius carved turns, the shorter tighter radius non-gs skis would have made that more normal method of bump sking easier.

The Metron B5 is a fat ski with deep sidecut and high torsional rigidity. Might be one of the best all conditions single ski to hit the market. At least I'm interested in trying it out.

I currently have 3 pairs of skis, and I'm also a Volkl fan. I have the 6 stars. I had them on that powder day at beaver creek. They actually worked ok, but they required a good head of steam to get any float. Probably not the ideal ski for a first time run in with powder.

To dcroxby

I'll be at A-basin for the Jan camp. I think Hobbit and SCSA will be there too. Should be a great time!

My other ski trips so far out west are:

7 days stradling the weekend before Christmas - will be at Breck, Beaver Creek, and Vail.

Aspen in Mid Jan for 4 days with the Lafayette Ski Club

4 days in Utah in March

Other than those trips I'll probably just be skiing out here in the midwest and over at Holiday Valley in NY.

Anyone wanna do some turns just drop me a private.

[dcroxby]

OK. I am decided. I am registering for the Jan All Mountain Camp at Arapahoe. Just printed out the application.

Looking forward to meeting everyone!

[Guest]

John,

Agreed that bad practice is bad for your skiing or another endeavor.

I agree that if you were going to a multi day camp and bumps were on the agenda a ski more suited would be appropriate. Don't know what ski you were on, but just because it is a "GS" ski, doesn't make it inappropriate for bumps. Bumps are not my favorite terrain, I ski them equally badly on straight skis, SL's or any other thang you put on my feet!

MilesB may be able to offer suggestions on suitable skis for that terrain. He can work miracles, why with one short sentance on epic, he has muted my wife

For that I am in awe

To your comment about powder, I suggest that even if you had a true powder ski that one day in 30 inches you would still have struggled.

[John Mason]

Guest said:
"To your comment about powder, I suggest that even if you had a true powder ski that one day in 30 inches you would still have struggled."

Actually we went down after an hour and rented some fat skies. While they helped some, we still found some "bottomless" parts that if your speed wasn't up you just sank up to your chest in.

I'm assuming from your comments a 10 inch powder on a firm base is a better depth for a first foray into the stuff.

I also had on ski goggles with prescription lens inserts (which I need to see at all) and after a couple of falls they became unsuable.

So it became a sting on the eyes day with no goggles too. I learned to always bring something to clean the goggles with. Later I got actual perscription goggles where the lens correction is right in the polycarbnate rather than being 2 layers. This also solved any fogging problems.

I think I may have skied about 25 days total at that point.

I'm looking forward to getting real powder again now that I'm better equiped in the goggle department and 75 days of dynamic balance under my belt.

That powder day was the most unenjoyable ski day of my life - by a large margin. Since everyone else lusts for a powder day obviously I have a long way to go. But I'm looking forward to it.

I hear from some colorado folks that predictions are this is going to be a better snow year than last year. So maybe I'll get that 10 inch powder over groomed practice surface to play on.

[skier_j]

John that was me that got posted as Guest above.

Thats one of the funky things on this forum I don't understand. I was logged in and my response came up as Guest, why?

Your experience is just what I would have expected, now go get more days in the light deep stuff! Probably not a bad assessment to find medium depth to learn in---if you can.

[Guest]

John, the trouble with 10 inches over hard groomed is that the sometimes the snow won't slow you down as much, forcing you to make your turns more out of the fall line to maintain a comfortable (for you) speed. The more directly down the fall line you can go, the easier it is to make turns. In this regard, it is sometimes harder to ski the very light powder than the heavier stuff. Once you get the feel for deep snow and can handle the speed in it, you are good to go in almost any powder and crud. Don't worry, you'll get it, the skiing fundamentals are the same as what you have learned so far. The hardest part is being able to ski enough deep snow on the gentler wide open slopes before it gets all tracked out. Try looking for areas with widely spaced trees (where you can make at least 3-4 turns before you have to change line), you can usually find untracked there for quite awile, and it shouldn't be too intimidating.

[milesb]

the above was me.

[milesb]

Also, don't think for one second that Bonni has been entirely mute!

[Harald]

I hope this is taken in the spirit of providing information and not viewed as a sales or marketing opportunity. Our all mountain camps are unique in many ways. We observe and provide information to each participant about boots, alignment, footbed effectiveness, stance and overall balance. We offer the opportunity for campers to change and improve their boot set up. The coaches also can make on snow alignment adjustments without leaving the slopes. Every Harb Ski Systems coach is trained and has participated in Harb Ski Systems Alignment training courses. It's like taking your boot fitter with you to the slopes. We often take participants to our Harb Skier Center for boot modifications after skiing.

During the camp we offer and develop exercises with gates, or other in snow helper tools that make all mountain movements easier and safer to understand and perform.

In addition to addressing the individual needs for each student, we address and strengthen areas absolutely essential to all mountain skiing including pole use and upper and lower body coordination.

[dcroxby]

Harald,

I have the application filled out. Just have one question. If I already have custom footbeds does it make sense for me to come a day earlier for the alignment. If I do is there an dditional charge?

Thanks!

[dcroxby]

Harald,

Never mind! Just spoke to you on the phone.

Don