Help me understand the first PMTS lesson

PMTS Forum

Postby BigE » Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:17 am

Anonymous wrote:SCSA is not a misogynist. BTW, Big E, if you are reading this, thanks for putting that thread on Epic back on track! :)


Thanks! Unfortunately, the troll ended up getting me too.
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Postby Lisa » Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:48 am

That was me who wrote that. I was having a blonde moment, and I forgot to sign my name! You came up with some great insight on that thread, but too bad there is so much junk there that people pobabaly won't read it. Touch base if you're ever out in Summit County.

Now hat Epic is covered with Dog Doo, I may hang out here a bit, if people don't mind!
Lisa
 

Postby Ott Gangl » Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:03 am

Lisa wrote:Now hat Epic is covered with Dog Doo, I may hang out here a bit, if people don't mind!


That's funny, Lisa... :) ..Ott
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Postby BigE » Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:50 am

Lisa wrote: Touch base if you're ever out in Summit County.


I most certainly will! Just don't know when.

Cheers!
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Postby piggyslayer » Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:15 pm

Lisa, BigE,

I have posted some comments about energy leak thread on the "Harb Carving is like Snowboarding" thread. I apologize for that again. I should not have commented Epic discussion on non-epic forum.

But since you are here, just my curiosity, can you tell me why nobody in the whole thread even mentioned things like:
1. Ski with your feet
2. Do not ski with large muscles.
3. Use LTE tipping to control turns with minimum impact on kinetic chain
4. Relax leg/hip muscles when tipping
5. Use narrow stance

These are all obvious energy savers.
Some of it is clearly PMTS only, but some of it should be valid within
PSIA (at least peripheral) instruction.
For me the whole PMTS is about conserving energy ("do not turn your skis", "stop pushing plastic (ski boots)", etc.), I know people there hate PMTS but these ideas are so relevant that I am curious why nobody mentioned them.
Piggy Slayer
let the piggy breathe
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Postby Lisa » Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:10 pm

Piggy, I was subtlely trying to move in that direction, before the entire thread got hijacked. Part of the way people leak, or waste energy occurs when someone either has no understanding of how to use their feet, or , for any number of reasons, cannot use them correctly. At that point, they start to rely on larger muscle to iniate the turn, which is a waste of energy.

While I touched on psychological issues as ONE of the reasons this may be going on, in no way was I implying that it was the only reason. of course, the rabid dog decided to focus on that, basically making the thread incomprhensible!
Lisa
 

Postby piggyslayer » Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:24 am

Here is a clear proof (found on SkierSynergy web site) that the canine one dislikes PMTS as well. Here it is:
doggy exposed.

I hope SkierSynergy does not object me posting this link.

ADDED LATER:
The link does not work on some PCs so here it is spelled out copy it and paste to separate browser window or Media Player:
http://web.pdx.edu/~petersj/HoodCamp/Ge ... Oregon.WMV

Keep watching till the end.
Last edited by piggyslayer on Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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OH MY!!

Postby skier_j » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:07 am

I thought you had posted the wrong link for quite awhile! :lol:
Whee!
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Postby BigE » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:15 pm

piggyslayer wrote:Lisa, BigE,

I have posted some comments about energy leak thread on the "Harb Carving is like Snowboarding" thread. I apologize for that again. I should not have commented Epic discussion on non-epic forum.

But since you are here, just my curiosity, can you tell me why nobody in the whole thread even mentioned things like:
1. Ski with your feet
2. Do not ski with large muscles.
3. Use LTE tipping to control turns with minimum impact on kinetic chain
4. Relax leg/hip muscles when tipping
5. Use narrow stance

These are all obvious energy savers.


This stupid forum software! I wrote a HUGE response to this and was told INVALID SESSION and LOST ALL THE CONTENT! Boy am I pissed!

The short and skinny:

I was focussed on levels 1 and 2 of the pyramid Lisa posted. (4) comes close. Relaxed leg/hip/torso is the best way to ski. Period. There is an uncertainty principle involved -- the more forcefully you hold your center of mass still, the less you are sure of it's location. Why? Feedback.

You will get more feedback from a supple body than a stiff one. I used tossing an apple from hand to hand to vs holding it stock still in one hand to guess it's weight as an example. You use more semi-rigid muscles to weigh the apple when tossing it back and forth, so you have more feedback sources.

Similarly, if you hold your center of mass stock still, you won't know exactly where it is, consequently, your body will not know early enough which way to move it. Result: energy leak.

You need to remain relaxed and supple -- just between concentric and eccentric contraction. That's the point between the muscle contracting and lengthening. This is the best balance point, and you can only really develop functional power if you are well balanced.

Stance width varies. It's pretty much set once you are properly canted/aligned. I still have not seen a definition, except that in general, too narrow is boots touching -- although mine often do touch in the moguls.....

Skiing with large muscles vs. small ones has many causes, including technique, fear ( psychological and touched on ), even too stiff boots. No new level 1/2 things here.

IMO, skiing with the feet is a given.

Also, IMO, the bulk of energy is leaked at turn completion/transition, by holding the edge too long, and/or making a slow transition. Not being able to make a quick transition usually means lack of agility/coordination or simple laziness -- all of which are lower in the pyramid.

So, must I tip LTE not to leak energy? I say no. Tipping LTE is but one way to get the body properly organized in the turn over the skis. I'm sure the debate of cross-over vs cross-under would be similar, but ultimately, IMO, ALL these issues wrt energy leaks boil down to level 1 and 2 items -- agility/balance/coordination/flexibility/strength/confidence.

Hope this helps!

Cheers
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Postby BigE » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:21 pm

piggyslayer wrote:Lisa, BigE,
These are all obvious energy savers.
....
For me the whole PMTS is about conserving energy ("do not turn your skis", "stop pushing plastic (ski boots)", etc.), I know people there hate PMTS but these ideas are so relevant that I am curious why nobody mentioned them.


Oh yeah, in the preamble I lost, I said something like: I can conserve energy by lollygagging down the hill. I'd prefer to ski aggessively. Leaks are not about energy conservation -- they are only about misspent energy. Lisa's example of the skateboarder that increased his jump height by not clenching their shoulders pre-jump was excellent.
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