WOW, I'm the star on Epic! Or is it Epic Star, not!!!

PMTS Forum

WOW, I'm the star on Epic! Or is it Epic Star, not!!!

Postby h.harb » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:28 pm

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/81953/technical-analysis-of-pmts

This is the best I've seen yet, we are going to have some fun with this.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic!

Postby h.harb » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:55 pm

Being compared to a World cup skier at my age is truly an honor. I'd have picked someone who uses more of a float transition in a GS arc like Svindal, and I'd have used more of a slalom arc to compare to my arc, (since my arc is tighter), but regardless, it's still fun to be compared to Grandi.

And thanks Reilly for taking the time to do all that work, searching out a piece of video.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic!

Postby GHagen » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:36 pm

Harald
In 2 whole days of skiing, at both Steamboat and Vail, I saw less than handful of skiers that were using good ski physics. That means that I viewed hundreds of skiers with very few worth taking a second look at. As you interact with the PSIA/Epic contingent, they are not even seeing PMTS live in their normal ski days. As they are not seeing it, can't understand it, is is no wonder that they discount it. It makes me think that it would be nice to find some way to congenially expose those with an open mind to what you have created.(preferably on snow)
When they can really see what modern skis were meant to do, if they are serious about skiing rather than perpetuating their paradigm, perhaps good things can happen.
GHagen
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:46 am
Location: Denver

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic!

Postby h.harb » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:47 pm

Gary, you are absolutely right, PSIA has not looked beyond their nose. Thank goodness in many ways for me. Their paradigm and culture would never allow them to change completely, which would be required if PMTS would work in regular ski schools. It has been tried on many levels and they always squash development and ingenuity.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic!

Postby MonsterMan » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:22 pm

Wow! they changed their software over there, very nice.

I just read through the thread over there, it's now closed by the way.

The bloke who started that thread is keen to boast about being a L3 "instructor", demo team member, "race coach" etc. (Sounds like the kind of dickhead that wears his red jacket to the bar after polishing his pins that all the locals AND "guests" laugh at behind his back), yet he has less idea about movement analysis than most keen amateurs here.

That is just frightful for his students. Imagine paying money for a lesson from someone who looks at your skiing but doesn't see! It's criminal that people get exposed to this nonsense and don't know about the P.M.T.S. alternative, so they won't take any more lessons and try to self teach, (the next best alternative), yet often become dangerous missiles on the slopes. And that raises the possibility that I, or my family and friends will get hurt, and that is not acceptable.

I wish they would let MAx501 back to sort him out.

What a joke!
"Someone once said to me that for us to beat the Europeans at winter sports was like Austria tackling us at Test cricket. I reckon it's an accurate judgement." Malcolm Milne
User avatar
MonsterMan
 
Posts: 911
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: Surfers' Paradise, Australia

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic!

Postby h.harb » Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:58 pm

We have to realize a few things about Epic, they didn’t ban Max501 and others, like Bolter and Volklskier because they are supporters of PMTS. They were banned because they understand and demonstrated skiing better than the moderators and the vaunted instructors that post on Epic.

Here is a mixture of a few amateurs, some PSIA full certs. (Bolter) and others; out technicaling the tecno Geeks on Epic.

They had no choice but to ban them, they were making the Epic stars look bad.

Now this guy Reilly on the other hand is funny. I have no animosity toward him, he’s just a kid who has lots to learn and not much figured out yet. He’s learning, too bad for him, the hard way.

He has accomplished something that few on Epic have been able to do. He out Epiced himself, he put up a thread to attack PMTS and Harald Harb and got shut down by Epic posters.

He misrepresented the comparison and no one picked up on it. Yet some did say his MA was wrong. He doesn’t get my skiing or racing turns in general in any way.

He picked a slalom size type turn I made, (on Super Shaped) which has a tight high angled, arc to arc radii and compared it to GS sized free skiing turn of a World Cup skier cruising along in a relaxed run. I know the run from video I’ve studied on Grandi. So from the beginning he doesn't understand what he’s doing , he’s comparing apples to oranges.

Now this guy is trying far too hard to impress (sorry Monsterman) is this the best that Ozz has to offer?
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic! Or is it Epic Star, not!!!

Postby MonsterMan » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:16 pm

is this the best that Ozz has to offer?


You told me yourself that you respected Malcom Milne.
"Someone once said to me that for us to beat the Europeans at winter sports was like Austria tackling us at Test cricket. I reckon it's an accurate judgement." Malcolm Milne
User avatar
MonsterMan
 
Posts: 911
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:10 pm
Location: Surfers' Paradise, Australia

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic! Or is it Epic Star, not!!!

Postby h.harb » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:22 pm

You know how to hurt a guy, I've got to stop telling you about the history.

Yes, Malcolm an old friend, probably the best skier in Ozz history. But he's my age, let's stop picking on the geriatric population.

USAGE: Geriatric is the normal, semiofficial term used in the U.S. and Britain when referring to old people ( : a geriatric ward;: geriatric patients). When used outside such contexts, however, it typically carries overtones of being worn out and decrepit and can therefore be offensive.

And if anyone, you know how sensitive I am.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic!

Postby Baja1 » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:23 pm

While I can appreciate Reilly's time and effort in putting that post together, I have to disagree with most of his MA. Very poor perception of body positions, particularly of the hip and knee, and how those two inter-relate.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't what Reilly sees as "knee angulation" actually the visual effect of what happens with strong counteracting and counterbalancing? IOW, he thinks the knee is flexing sideways because Harald is holding pelvis counter as long as possible through the bottom of the turn. I don't think I've ever seen knee angulation with proper CA and CB. Is it even possible? Of course it's possible with a lack of CA and CB (inclination).

I also had to shake my head when he suggested Harald's outside ski is going "straight" because of too much weight on the inside ski. The montage was taken from Max's "PMTS Slice" vid on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lpXFpkTKgs

I think Reilly's analysis of the still photos are way off the mark from the actual movement in the video.

It also would have been more appropriate to compare Harald's tight slice arc with Grandi's slalom. There is much more similarity there than with Grandi's GS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcoxQ2YtHko
Baja1
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:39 pm

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic! Or is it Epic Star, not!!!

Postby h.harb » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:51 pm

Thank you Baja, you are more accurate and have more movement understanding than the MA done by Reilly. What he is calling knee angulation is actually after I've flexed, during the release where there is no longer any pressure on my skis. In that clip, (not an excuse but facts) I'm skiing on a test boot from Head. That was two summers ago at Hood. The boot is an early version of the boot that Bode and Cuche ski on, but in a 120 flex and 98 wide, size 27. I actually ski a 150 flex, size 26 and 94 width. So the skiing is a test run for boot evaluation.
So I don't think I did too badly, considering it's not even my regular skiing in my own boots. BTW, I was still young then, only 58 years old.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic! Or is it Epic Star, not!!!

Postby BigE » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:03 pm

Please explain how the divergence can be caused by anything other than improper weight distribution.
BigE
 
Posts: 1519
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:42 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic! Or is it Epic Star, not!!!

Postby h.harb » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:10 pm

Divergence isn't bad, that's just another ski instructor assumption, it just means that the inside ski is tipping further and creating a shorter arc than the outside ski. Please take into consideration, the montage is stretched and the radius is actually 12 meters, on a steep slope, with spring snow. Anything can happen when you load the ski that quickly and the snow grabs it.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic! Or is it Epic Star, not!!!

Postby BigE » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:20 pm

Thank you!
BigE
 
Posts: 1519
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:42 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic! Or is it Epic Star, not!!!

Postby Max_501 » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:23 pm

When I analyze a release I'm looking to see if the outside leg is flexed more at the release than at the apex (typically close to the point of max extension of the outside leg). In Grandi's case I see the outside leg being flexed which would suggest a flex movement rather than an extension or up movement used to release.

It doesn't take much flexion of the outside leg to start a release.
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4124
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: WOW, I'm the star on Epic! Or is it Epic Star, not!!!

Postby h.harb » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:48 pm

Remember Grandi is cruising, free skiing on GS skis. He's using a lazy (for Him ) flexing release. If we were comparing his releases in slalom turns, you'd see more flexing from skiers like Grandi. If Grandi were making a tight slalom radius like mine, there would be no time for him to use the lazy release. You'd see a retraction like I'm using.

What is relevant here is that regular skiers don't ski GS turns anywhere near what Grandi is doing. He's selected something most skier never relate to, I ski short turns when I demonstrate because they are more relevant for every day use on slopes. Skiers mostly ski with short radius turns; so let's keep this in perspective (for bumps, steeps, ice, trees).

You are both right in what you are saying, flexing is the release method Grandi uses in the montage. If you want to search the forum, I have explained why even when flexing, people mistake the movement as extending, but it's not! There are many degrees of flexing. If you watch my Flexing DVD, you will see I explain where and how much flexing is needed. What Grandi is not doing is extending, which is what the original topic is about, PSIA, ASIA, and CSIA all teach and use extension. We don't, thank you Reilly for proving this for us.

For me to demonstrate what Grandi is doing is so easy, it's a joke. It's a much easier release than the one I'm showing. I don't understand what Reilly is after here. It takes more skill to make my turn than the one Grandi is using.

Notice I didn't use a Reilly turn to do MA, and show the difference, not even one he selected. I could easily do MA on his turn, (someone posted to me) from his web site. At least that's a turn he picked and uses to show his skiing. He selected a random turn of mine and took it out of context for an comparison that doesn't make sense. I'm not concerned about the turn he picked; I think it's a fair representation, but it's not a proper comparison to what Grandi is doing from the stand point of the skis, (GS skis vs Super Shapes), turn size, speed and intent.
Does this tell you anything about his understanding of skiing, it does to me.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Next

Return to Primary Movements Teaching System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests