Long out side leg? How?

[ChuckT]

I don't think about projecting my hips in any direction. How does one project the hips forward? What muscles are used?

Good questions. I don't know. But it's good to know that you don't think about moving the hips to get forward. Pulling the feet back, you only contract the hamstrings?

[Max_501]

Pulling the feet back, you only contract the hamstrings?

When the leg is flexed and I pull the foot back the main muscle I can feel is the hamstring but I'm sure other muscles are involved to some extent as well.

[grambo]

I thaught I saw HHs inside leg get a little longer in frame 2 but I was obviously wrong.

I saw the same exact thing in the photo and asked myself the same question. I understand the explanations given, so the point has been clarified. Just don't see the justification for this being viewed as so out of left field, so to speak.

[jclayton]

Grambo ,
inside leg extension was pushed heavily a while ago , Hombre Rapido i think . It is a misconception that produced a strong reaction . For a while these dead end ideas clogged up the debates .

[BigE]

FWIW, the Inside Leg Extension that was bantied about has nothing to do with this thread.
If you want details of what it is, search for ILE on "the other site". It is not supported by PMTS at all -- it is to be avoided

[ChuckT]

Does closing the knee joint make the hip move aft more?

At transition pulling the feet back gets you more forward. The knee joint closes because the hamstrings are pulling the feel back and possibly up (if the pulling movement is strong enough).

I try to pull the feet back by contracting the hamstrings which should also close the knee joint, but I have a tough time doing it without falling back. Reading Essentials again, P. 188-189 Figures 7-5-A and 7-5-B, I can't help seeing that Harald's knee joints open up more as he pulls the feet back. I get the same impression from the DVD. If true, doesn't this indicate that pulling the feet back is not achieved by contracting the hamstrings? What am I missing here?

Another question is ankle flex in PMTS. Do you actively flex (or flex and unflex) your ankles as you ski?

[Bolter]

Fore/aft- inside hip, knee and ankle movement . . .


Stand with your heels and butt against a wall. Establish a stance and free foot by lifting one foot off the floor. While pressing the free foot's heel against the wall behind you, keep contact and pressure while sliding the heel up the wall. This approximates the movements required to keep the heel/foot under the hip while closing the hip, knee and ankle joint. Does that help or is it "off the wall?"

You should also progressively/actively close the ankle joint more and more as you bring the foot up the wall and closer to your hip.

This (exercise) excludes the free foot inversion and tipping movements (external rotation) of the leg AND the CA and CB of the upper body that are also involved while skiing but it does isolate the problem/question you have.

JR

[tdk6]

Does closing the knee joint make the hip move aft more?

At transition pulling the feet back gets you more forward. The knee joint closes because the hamstrings are pulling the feel back and possibly up (if the pulling movement is strong enough).

I try to pull the feet back by contracting the hamstrings which should also close the knee joint, but I have a tough time doing it without falling back. Reading Essentials again, P. 188-189 Figures 7-5-A and 7-5-B, I can't help seeing that Harald's knee joints open up more as he pulls the feet back. I get the same impression from the DVD. If true, doesn't this indicate that pulling the feet back is not achieved by contracting the hamstrings? What am I missing here?

Another question is ankle flex in PMTS. Do you actively flex (or flex and unflex) your ankles as you ski?

Contracting the hamstring when you have your boots on and skis are flat on the snow will close the knee joint since your boots will not flex much. There is less resistance at your knee joint. Also, you are in the middle of a float so you cannot pull your feet back because you have nothing to pull against espceially if you are in the air. Check out this guy:
http://www.ronlemaster.com/images/2006- ... -gs-2.html

Note how he flexes through the transitions with minimum ancle flex and hips way behind his feet. Every turn.

What muscles would you guys say are used for relesing the outside ski and flexing it to match a 90deg flexed inside leg? What muscles are used for extending the new outside leg?

[Bolter]

Oh no. Please believe me, there is pull back in efficient correct skiing. IMO you should stay away from WC analysis and work on the essentials with blind faith in your own skiing for a minimum period of two years before you ever again type another word.

Wait, you can watch WC but shut off your mind, gape your mouth and look for the essential movements, don't search for exceptions and confuse yourself with the complexities.

Come on, practice the essentials, teach them, look for them, immerse yourself in them. Stop already.

I am not trying to be mean, it just sounds that way.

JR

[tdk6]

Oh no. Please believe me, there is pull back in efficient correct skiing. IMO you should stay away from WC analysis and work on the essentials with blind faith in your own skiing for a minimum period of two years before you ever again type another word.

Wait, you can watch WC but shut off your mind, gape your mouth and look for the essential movements, don't search for exceptions and confuse yourself with the complexities.

Come on, practice the essentials, teach them, look for them, immerse yourself in them. Stop already.

I am not trying to be mean, it just sounds that way.

JR

LOL bolter... have you noting better to nag about quit posting. And just for claity, show some video of yourself pulling your feet back underneath your hips while knees are flexed 90deg and you are in the air at transition before you continue posting your BS.

[Max_501]

Also, you are in the middle of a float so you cannot pull your feet back because you have nothing to pull against espceially if you are in the air.

TDK, two problems with the statement above. The first is that it is possible to pull the feet back during the float or while you are in the air and the second is that you are contradicting what PMTS teaches and this site is for teaching PMTS.

And just for claity, show some video of yourself pulling your feet back underneath your hips while knees are flexed 90deg and you are in the air at transition before you continue posting your BS.

Bolter is correct about pullback in efficient skiing. As for video, what could be a better example than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BToYX1r8Bo4

[Mikey B]

If you look at that montage of Svindal again you will see that immediately after transition, his skis are back underneath him...how do you think they got there? He is pulling the feet back underneath him through the entire turn...the feet are racing ahead, just as ours do...which is why it is a constant and concious action to keep those feet underneath him, and us!..and imagine at that speed and in those conditions on a race course. They also push to the edge of control.

HH always and constantly says that pictures and even video do not always tell the story about what is happening for a skier, especially a World Cup skier, unless you have been there and/or have the knowledge to disseminate it...their strategy, awareness, skills and response to race conditions is beyond the knowledge of most of us, and we cannot get into their head in pics to know what they are thinking, reacting to and trying to do at a particular moment.

It can look like the skier is standing up when the feet are pulled back and retracted at transition simply because they are going from the bottom of the turn at extreme angles, and retracting and pulling the feet back putting their feet underneath them and flat on the hill for a moment...the change from the extreme angles to skis flat on the hill , and then towards extreme angles again give the impression of the skier rising as his body moves across the skis.

Bottom line...PULL THE FEET BACK...it works, pull back the feet and you will feel the increase in control...you cannot tip effectively with your feet out in front. Feet out in front equals twisting, steering and gross body movements to try to accomplish a turn... and you can see this when a World Cup skier gets caught in the back seat and is fighting to both make the turn and to get back over their skis. I don't think the average skier can appreciate the effort these guys have to make to stay forward.

Mike

[tdk6]

And just for claity, show some video of yourself pulling your feet back underneath your hips while knees are flexed 90deg and you are in the air at transition before you continue posting your BS.

Bolter is correct about pullback in efficient skiing. As for video, what could be a better example than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BToYX1r8Bo4

Are you saying that @ 0:04 and @ 0:13 his hips are over his feet!?

[Mikey B]

Max

Great video of pull back

Mike

[tdk6]

....second is that you are contradicting what PMTS teaches and this site is for teaching PMTS.

Then why are you putting up a video of a guy that does not ski PMTS? Please tell me also what I am contradicting in this case!