PMTS should be accepted much wider.

[-- SCSA]

Yes, let's not turn this into bashing.

Here's a classic example of how good PMTS is. Yesterday, I was skiing with a friend who has all the wrong movements. The guy can get down anything, but he's way heavy on athletic, way short on skills.

So I start to show him a few things. First I showed him tipping. Literally, in 10 minutes, his skiing felt better to him. Then I showed him how to counter, so he can hold an edge better. He was astounded. Throughout the day, I would show him bits and pieces of the PMTS system. At the end of the day, he was like, "Where can I get his books?".

You watch. He'll read HH's books, follow me a few more times, and he'll be ripping. Now, I'm still going to recommend to him that he get with HH and company for a lesson, but the guy is broke. Oh well, maybe I'll get him a lesson for his bday!

Now keep in mind, I'm not an instructor. I've followed nothing but PMTS. In just a few minutes of tips with my buddy, I was able to take his skiing up a notch or two. Best of all, my buddy didn't have to pony up 500 bucks for a private lesson!

Could a ski instructor have done the same thing? Probably. But the difference is that once my buddy reads the books and gets the PMTS system, him and I will be able to "talk the talk". I'll be able to really help him once he reads the books and it won't cost him a dime (maybe a few beers).

That, my online friends, is way cool and in my opinion the biggest strength of PMTS. The fact that two, John Q. Skiers, can talk the same lingo (PMTS teachings) all day and help each other. Like when I tell him, "You're weighted release is off...", he knows exactly what I mean.

If my buddy was to take PSIA lessons, I wouldn't be able to help him each day, because, PSIA lessons have no synergy or common lingo. Literally, one instructor can completely contradict the other! I could tell my buddy, "You're not releasing your downhill ski..." and he would have no idea what I mean, because he's taken lessons from PSIA types, each of them having their very own lingo.

In PMTS, two skiers can get together and help each other. That can't happen in PSIA; you have to pony up for a lesson, each and every time.

Here's another example. Two people from this board who've never met could meet and ski, and they'd be able to help each other. How? Because each of them is working off of the same book. No expensive ski lessons.

Maybe that's why the PSIA dudes are so pissed? Because with HH's system, I can train with others -- non ski instructors -- and get better. I don't have to go broke along the way, paying for expensive ski lessons.

[Guest]

Guest here!

I ski a lot. I teach a lot. PMTS has done wonders for my skiing. I'm certified PMTS and PSIA...go figure!

Has Harald become your God of skiing? Do not question the Idol, do not discusss building a better mousetrap! It's tons-o-fun fun to bash PSIA AND PMTS instructors, but there is a limit to good taste. If he can't take the heat...

Is it possible that PMTS needs more than three "perfect" instructors?
Is it possible that anyone could add/improve any of Harald's methods?
Is it possible that PMTS is alrady getting old and fading into obscurity?

Harald is just one man with that tiny little retail shack near Denver. PSIA/ISA continues to teach most students all over the world.

My point is that the ultra-cult insder snobbery must end or PMTS will be totally lost...he's already lost the "hot new" buzz. Skiing is far too big to wait for three "apostle" instructors to spread the gospel slowly.

Guest

...I think there are at least a few reasons why PMTS is not as widespread as it should:

1. Harald set high standards for his instructors. This is good...but it is also bad for there are too few "apostles" to spread the "gospel"....when I took PSIA-style instruction, I demanded...a level III instructor...with PMTS, I want black level certified instructors...

2. ...I wonder if all the other PMTS fully certified instructors can really achieve the level of [Harald, Rich Messer, and Diana]...

3. To be fully certified with Harald...you have to really live where the big mountains are...With PSIA I can get certified skiing during week-ends and studying at home in the evening keeping my day job...

4. ...most of us can work on volume 1 of Harald's books and come out with a general idea. PSIA...at times is plain ridicoulous...an intermediate skier can understand that some of what...is being taught is no good...last year. I thought I was using PMTS, but Harald, Rich, and Diana kept correcting me...I do not believe that you can become an expert skier just by reading books...

5. ...I read the books...plenty of times. Am I skiing double black diamonds? Unfortunately not...If we had an exam on theory I bet I get an A...

...PMTS is..arguably the best on the market...there are times when neither the PSIA nor the PMTS can give that to you...

[-- SCSA]

Guest has some good points.

1) I know in my case, I'm always looking for improvement. If there was something out there that I felt had an advantage over PMTS, I'd be all over it. But right now, for me anyway, I just don't see it.

Here's why I stick with PMTS.
A) When I feel something is off, all I have to do is go back and work on some of the drills. Once I go off to the side and do a few drills, then go back to my skiing, it's always way better. Tough to argue with that.

B) Service. I can take my skis by their shop and they show me how to tune them -- free.

C) Service. If I have a question, I can always either call them or stop by their shop. They're always eager to show me a few pointers, or help me with whatever my question is.

D) Service. Maybe I've just been lucky, but every pair of skis and boots they've recommended for me has worked out perfectly. I love my Dalbello boots and my Head skis.

Guest, it's like this. If I was to take a lesson at your area, then take a lesson at Vail, there's no guarantee that I'll get the same lesson twice. For me, that's a huge deterrent. People learn the best when following a syllabus, or a course. PMTS is a course. If I work with one PMTSian in New York, then work with another in California, I'm guaranteed to get the same lesson, the same lingo, everything. That works for me!

2) There's no snobbery here. First of all, we're not big enough to be snobs!

But let's really go back and re-examine the whole thing.

HH was highly critical of traditional ski instruction and that set off a huge keg of dynamite. I've talked about this with HH and company ad nauseum. Go back and read what he wrote. He never called anyone a name, never called anyone stupid. What he did do, is write about what he felt were huge holes in the traditonal ski instruction system. In reality, all Harald did, is put in print what lots of ski pros have felt for years.

But the ski instruction community couldn't take the harsh critcism and they still can't. And on that note, they get what they deserve, which is a huge slap on the fanny. Guest, the tradtional model is broke and it's been broke for years. I've been in this ski thang for going on my 4th season. I've seen the traditional model and as an entrepreneur, my opinion is that's way broke. Your problem guest, and others like you in the "gang", is that you refuse to grow or change. You won't admit to your mistakes and you fully believe that your model works.

You talk about snobbery. Yeah? I ski at Vail/BC all the time. I bet so far this year I've rode up the chair with at least 6 ski instructors there. Guess what? Not one of them has tried to talk to me, let alone sell me a facking lesson. If they worked for me, well, they wouldn't. I'd fire 'em all.

Look guest. There's out of control skiers everywhere. What is the gang doing about this? Where's the innovation? What are you doing, to make the slopes safer, by teaching skiers skills? Not a damn thing, that's what. So tell me. What is there to be proud of?

You can go on defending your gang, that's fine. But don't be calling us snobs. You guys, in your pretty uni's, are the snobs.

HH may be next to a truck stop, but there's lots of innovation going on there. If the facking ski industry would just take notice, we'd all be better off. But instead, lead by people like you, they just sit on their fat arse, doing nothing but bitching and moaning; "He's picking on us..."

HH called a spade a spade.

3) Yes, there's not very many PMTS instructors. You know why? I'll tell you why. The other day at the Beav I was chatting with the director of operations. He was prodding me to teach part-time, which was a nice compliment. But when asked about my cert. (he assumed I was a 3) I told him all I know is PMTS. He said, "We don't accept PMTS certification. You have to be PSIA something or other."

So even though I'm as good or better than anyone in their department, I couldn't teach there if I wanted to. So you want to know why there's not more PMTS instructors? The good ole boyz club in skiing won't accept PMTS cert -- that's why.

Here's how ignorant your gang is. HH used to be on the demo team, right? Right. The demo team is the gang's big thing, right? Right.

Well, here's HH, who used to be on the gangs demo team -- they were REAL proud of him. But once he went off on his own, now all the sudden they're not so proud of him. Matter of fact, they want nothing to do with him! How the fack does that make any sense?! It doesn't, just like everything else in the gang.

Can you say collusion?

4) You ask, "Is it possible PMTS is fading into obscurity..."
Well, if you look at HH's balance sheet, you'd think the opposite. Their business is growing faster than ever. All their camps sold out months in advance. Even me, wacko SCSA, I'm on the waiting list for the Montana camp.

5) I've said it before, I'll say it again. The ski business is run by the good 'ole boyz club. I blame them for the lack of safety on the slopes and the fact that there's now more snowboarders than skiers. The ski business -- your gang -- is doing nothing to get more skiers on the hill. Nothing! They are so facking clueless, they'd have to improve, just to be called stupid. I can't even believe they hold jobs.

6) HH is not a god. He's simply the head of the one company out there that gets it. HH and company are doing something to rejuvinate skiing. They're putting out books and videos that make skiing much simpler and much less expensive. They're making thangs that let skiers practice in the summer. They're risking their own cash and taking huge risks.

I've always said, "Do something, even if it's wrong."

7) Finally, your point is that the ultra snobbery must end or PMTS will fade away. First of all, you can bet that PMTS will never fade away -- it's customers will see to that. We may be the Mac's of skiing, but we're not fading away. If you're really concerned though, talk to your gang. They're the ones, not us, who are the ultra-snobs. Add-in knuckleheads too, while you're at it.

The future of the company is in good hands. HH is 55, Diana is like 20 ("she's hot, way hot!") When HH slows down, Diana will be right there. The future for PMTS is bright.

[-- SCSA]

Dear Guest,

Please don't take that my comments are aimed at you personally -- they're not.

It's just that as an entrepreneur, I have a lot of....feelings.

It pees me off to no end that the slopes aren't safe. I'm pissed that snowboarders are becoming a major influence.

I blame the ski industry.

But what really irks me is this. For 4 + years now, I've seen no indications of any change. Matter of fact, it's getting worse. Instead of selling safety and lessons the ski business is selling Coors Light. Instead of selling lessons, they're selling cheapo lift tickets.

The ski business should be investing in today's youth, getting them up and skiing for free, if that's what it takes. Today's 10 year old is tomorrow's season pass holder. Another blunder they've made is with lessons. The ski business still hasn't figured out that the first step to getting a ski customer is to make skiing as simple as possible. HH comes along, and while PMTS may not be complete answer, it's proven. Proven to help skiers improve quickly, which inturn generates repeat business. Skiers won't come back if they're not having fun, their boots hurt, equipment was wrong, or they got lousy service.

If I was in charge, I could turn this thing around real easy. But that's the problem. There's no entrpreneurism, there's no innovation. It seems to me, the business is lead by a bunch of people that are just hanging on to an old model, because they're afraid to take any risks.

So instead of doing what's really best, they do what they think is safe and of course, near term profitable. That's why they're selling Coors Light and cheapo lift tickets. They're simply not smart enough to do anything else.

[-- SCSA]

Here's one more note to Guest, then I gotta get to work.

Did you read my post about my buddy, who I showed a few tips to? After I showed him a few tips, here's what he said.
"Damn SCSA. I'm all excited about skiing again. I have to admit, I had lost my passion. I was just coming up here, skiing the same old runs, then going home.

"Now that you've shown me these tips, I'm excited about skiing again! I've got stuff to work on and I'm excited that I can now ski where I didn't think I could (he skied Bald Eagle with me that day and it was narly. Lots of deep funky snow)."

Later that day, he made plans with me to get some new skis (his were all wrong -- 190 Atomic's). He's coming up to ski with me on Christmas. He wants to go to Jackson with me.

So with just a few tips, look at the trickle down affect. He's now going to buy new equipment and ski more. He's going to travel out of state to ski and he's even dreaming about owning a condo or something up here. What drove it all? A few simple tips.

There are thousands more, just like my buddy.

[Guest]

Well it seems I have salted an open wound!

For the record I think PMTS is great. I use it, I teach it, but I'm worried that it will become the BetaMax of skiing.

Guest



[quote="-- SCSA"] Guest has some good points.

>...If I work with one PMTSian in New York, then work with another in California, I'm guaranteed to get the same lesson, the same lingo, everything...

You said are only three good PMTS instructors and they all MUST teach in the Rockies, near Harald. Your logic also suggests all students must take lessons in Colorado, near Harald.

> ...we're not big enough to be snobs!

Harald fosters a culture of PSIA bashing amongst his little cult of 100 dues paying, PMTS groupies (Side note: What on earth does PMTS.org do with the members' money? The newsletter is the only thing I know of, and it is piss poor). There are tens of thousands of PSIA members. Many are stubborn, out of date, old farts, many are movement wizards. Most of are in the middle. Still rarer are those of us with both PSIA and PMTS certifications. We all have spent a lot of time and money to achieve these qualifications.

> HH was[is] highly critical of traditional ski instruction...ad nauseum...He never called anyone a name, never called anyone stupid...

Correction: I've heard him name call and loose his temper in front of paying customers. He's routinely combative. And it's killing PMTS.

> Your problem Guest, and others like you in the "gang", is that you refuse to grow or change...

Many of us strive to remain part of and continue to learn from ALL the skiing gangs and cliques. We refuse to be excluded. We work hard to continually grow and change. We are continually upgrading and adding--we haven't stopped with Harald's three year old books--is this Godless skiing heresy?

> ...I've rode up the chair with at least 6 ski instructors...Not one of them has tried to talk to me, let alone sell me a facking lesson...

Do you also enjoy being pressured on an elevators by sleazy salesmen?

> ...There's out of control skiers everywhere. What is the gang doing about this?...

This is a problem with sliders not taking any lessons of any kind. All methods teach speed control and safety (FYI: PSIA is decidedly firmer teaching the Skiers' Responsibility Code")

> You can go on defending your gang, that's fine. But don't be calling us snobs. You guys, in your pretty uni's, are the snobs.

I'm part of the tiny PMTS gang too, dude! The number of unhappy PMTS+ers is greater than you yet know.

> HH may be next to a truck stop, but there's lots of innovation going on there...But instead, lead by people like you, they just sit on their fat arse, doing nothing but bitching and moaning...

He's selling equipment out of that very unprofessional dump. It's an embarrassment. It's very bad Public Relations.

> ... there's not very many PMTS instructors...at the Beav... the director of operations...was prodding me to teach part-time...when asked about my cert. (he assumed I was a 3) I told him all I know is PMTS. He said, "We don't accept PMTS certification. You have to be PSIA..."

> If PSIA is so damned easy for you, then why not go spend a few days and get certified? God forbid you should add anything to your teaching repetior. Question: Are you a PMTS certified instructor are you simply a "self-taught-by-book-know-it-all" or just another one of Harald's deep pocketed students?

> ...The good ole boyz club in skiing won't accept PMTS cert...

This is true for now, yet Harald did make a deal allowing his lingo to be used in future PSIA publications.

> Their business is growing faster than ever. All their camps sold out months in advance...I'm on a waiting list...

Waiting lists with only three instructors. Doh! This is the crux of the problem, Harald needs to loosen his death grip. It's strangling PMTS.

> ...The ski business is run by the good 'ole boyz club. I blame them for the lack of safety...more snowboarders... The ski business -- your gang -- is doing nothing to get more skiers on the hill. Nothing! They are so facking clueless, they'd have to improve, just to be called stupid. I can't even believe they hold jobs...

There's some calm, well argued logic.

> HH is not a god. He's simply the head of the one company out there that gets it. HH and company are doing something to rejuvinate skiing. They're putting out books and videos that make skiing much simpler and much less expensive. They're making thangs that let skiers practice in the summer. They're risking their own cash and taking huge risks.

Ha! Less expensive? $150 foot beds? $250 rollerblades? Must travel to Colorado for lessons? Puleeeeeeeeze!

...PMTS will never fade away -- it's customers will see to that. We may be the Mac's of skiing...

Luke Skywalker, remember well the lesson of BetaMax!

[-- SCSA]

Guest makes good points.
Hmm.

Well, let's not argue and turn this into a pissing match. What's the answer? Where to go from here?

Guest has 2 big points:
1) HH's bashing is killing PMTS.
I don't know about that, guest would know more. I'm of the ilk to make friends and partner with the competition, not bash it. I know in my line of work if all I did was say, "The others guys suck...", well, no one goes for that.

2) Not enough -- only 3 -- qualified teachers.
Well, he/she/it is right. If there aren't more teachers of PMTS, how can it grow?

Then I think guest's point is this:
If HH keeps bashing, all he's doing is turning away potential teachers. Well, I'd have to say he/she/it is right, if that's what the point really is. Seems to me that as long as the gatekeepers (SSD, instructors) have issues, or aren't completely convinced, they'll be no buy in.

So what do you think could be done here?

3) PMTS could end up to be the Betamax of skiing.
Well, here's my take. The customers always lead the way, in any product or service. It's the customers, who get to decide which product makes it and which one doesn't.

So sure, PMTS could never receive mass adoption -- it could always be known as some real small "thang". But, there's money in dominating a small niche. It could very well be that PMTS ends up to be highly popular with the motivated skier crowd, but not anywhere else. Who knows?

I know they've got a loyal following of skiers like myself. But it's not blind. HH earns my business, each and every time I go to see him.

4) Misc. questions to SCSA:
No, I'm not an instructor -- I'm just some dude whose only practiced PMTS. I'm a zealot, no doubt.

Do I have deep pockets? I'm fortunate, no doubt. But I haven't paid him a ton of money -- I've had 3 or 4 days with them personally. The rest, was simply desire and motivation. I'm a motivated student, with a capitol M.

I did try to get certified last year, but my back gave out. Last year if I stood around too much, my back would hurt. I've fixed the problem with my back. But me, there's no way I could get a job as an instructor, because I am truly, unemployable. It's my way or the highway. So rather, I just pass along stuff to friends, or anyone who asks.

There's no doubt, the numbers aren't very big. I know I'd sure like to see more people report the successes I have, but that's life I guess.

But this being the case, I think I know enough to see where the problems are -- and there are many, as you elude to. I've watched thousands of skiers, nearly all of them have the same problem. Problems that I feel could be largely be eradicated by a true learning system.

I've watched the ski industry, I've talked with leadership types. The business is laden with some of the most conservative, dumb bunny he/she/its that I've ever met. So after seeing what really goes on, I'm not keeping my hopes up. Because selling Coors Light and cheapo lift tickets are what the beesterds seem to favor, nothing else. Make enough money to keep the shareholders of their backs, worry about the rest later.

So guest makes good points. I think I've said about all I have to say on this issue.

Is there anyone else out there?

[Mr. M]

Did I hit the nail on the head (this is the longest thread so far )? Thanks for many good points in the previous posts. Unfortunately, some of them not on the main topic, so let?s not side-slip here and get back to it. What is the best way to popularize PMTS?

Published books are great, but I still believe that the average person will not go to the bookstore searching for ski instructions. Searching the Internet nowadays is a different story. But quality information is not available there. By quality here I mean how easy it is to digest it. Lito?s tapes are a great example of easy digestible information. Skiing is not easy after all but he made thee main points:
1. Stand on one foot.
2. Transfer balance early on.
3. Use dynamic anticipation to achieve short turns.
His latest tape (#3) influenced by PMTS adds a correction to the above:
Stand on one foot and tip your free foot to initiate and control the turns.

Sure it?s all oversimplified, but I think this is what PMTS needs. Are all of the drills even from the book one really needed for the simplest level of skiing? Book one is titled ?Anyone Can Be an Expert Skier?. I think PMTS is capable of producing a video ?Anyone Can Be a Skier? (just drop an ?Expert? ). When I did teach few people, I just showed them:
1. Stepping up the hill to control the edge.
2. Two-footed release (side slipping).
3. Tipping free foot (static).
4. Super Fantom half turn.
5. Super Fantom linked turn.
Very basic stuff of course but in an hour you may get someone skiing properly. Then I tell them go and buy HH book & video.

Having more coaches is great, but I am not sure this is the best or fastest way. The greatest coaches, by the way, are not necessarily the best physically fit, but in my opinion people with the best analytical skills. I don?t know exactly how PMTS certification works but I?ve seen PSIA requirements and the class level seem to commensurate with the skiing skills. I would be much happier to work with the person who can teach you how to catch a fish, instead of the one which is just able to catch a fish himself. In my opinion, the coaches will follow PMTS when there is a demand from customers.

In a way, PSIA is like Wal-Mart, it?s huge. PMTS is a ?Corner Store? compared to them. Sure you may compete with Wall-Mart but its better not to put your Corner Store next to Wall-Mart. I am saying that it?s much easier to sell your product though Wall-Mart instead of competing with them. Just get the information out (books are not enough) and people will ask for the product.

[jimbojhk]

Classsic Harald ego quoted below. Harald may be a great skier, but he is certainly a lousy businessman. He expects customers to call HIM. Picking fights with PSIA is his primary form of Pulic Relations. He also claims he dosn't "have enough quality instructors". Isn't something wrong with Harald's training when the hundreds of people he has trained aren't good enough?!?

I can't decide whether the author of the above quote is stupid or naive. This being Christmas day, I'll give him or her the benefit of the doubt and assume he is naive.

When Harald says he doesn't have enough quality instructors he is not impugning the abilities of the people he has trained he is merely stating that he doesn't have enough instructors yet to handle the demand. In other words demand exceeds supply, which most business men or women would agree is a favorable position in which to be.

A relatively small ski resort will have over 100 PSIA certified instructors on staff. If one then considers the whole of US ski instruction operations it is obvious that there several thousand instructors working the resorts alone. Harald is simply being honest when he states that he doesn't have enough instructors to compete on a numerical basis with the legions of PSIA instructors and that he doesn't have enough instructors to meet current demand for the PMTS product.

Harald's objective is simple in my opinion, he wants to skiers to enjoy the sport more through better, safer, more competent skiing. He is clearly acheiving that goal and enjoying increased business success as the value of his product becomes more widely understood. This being America skiers are free to choose the instructional method they want. PSIA will continue to attract the majority of students because of their size and their affiliation with every resort in the USA. However, PMTS will continue to attract their adherents among those willing to think and choose a method better grounded in biomechanical and physical priciples.

Mr. or Ms. Guest should feel free to grind their axe in this forum, however should they choose to do so they should be warned that I will be happy to comment on elements of his/her argument I find defective. So far, all I've seen from Mr/Ms. Guest are gratuitous insults, his/her arguments have been completely without any technical merit. Therefore, should he wish to pursue a debate on the merits of PMTS as compared to traditional teaching methods perhaps he should offer a technical argument or two in favor of his position.

Merry Christmas and Happy Skiing!
>

..I would personally love to have PMTS as the
> teaching system for most ski resorts...
>
> ...Ski Area Management Magazine did an article last season about
> how great PMTS system worked. Every ski area manager in the
> country reads the publication. Do you think we got one call?...
>
> ...We can hardly keep up with the demand right now...I have to
> turn people away because I don?t have enough quality instructors...

[Mr. T]

My views:

I think I said enough about Harold and PMTS in my previous post. But
there are a few extra comments I would like to add.

- I like Harald and I like skiing with him. However, he needs to add more
instructors on his roster and it is not unusual that too strong a teacher can
leave the movement without a leader if none emerges while the leader is still active. Without a leader PMTS may have a tough time to survive.
It happens in every sort of businesses every day. Look at GE: if Harald is
the Jack Welch of PMTS, who is is Immelt to take over when he will feel
it is time to pass the leadership to somebody else if only on the field, pardon, the slopes.

- One cannot say that Harald's clients are deep-pocketed. Most of us probably have enough money to be able to spend the money he asks for.
But PSIA courses (available only if one is at least a level I certified instructor and paid current duties) are not cheaper if one looks at the price per hour they charge. It is the fuc.ing ski industry that in the US is way too expensive. Ski passes cost double than in Europe, lodging in
some places requires one to start a mortgage, skis and boots cost at least
1.5 times the prices they command in Europe. I am thankful to make in the six digits, still I always wonder if I am not crazy when I go skiing to some places. And I refused to pay those prices for skis and boots. Mine come rigorously from Europe.
The only thing skiing in the US has that they don't have in Canada or Europe is someone like Harald with his enthusiasm and his knowledge of skiing. In Europe they always try to teach you gate racing. I am European
and I know about this deplorable state of the arts.

-I have seen several great skiers besides Harald, Rich, and Diana. But they were not good teachers. I met a few (me included) that, although in the PSIA-method, are good teachers but only up to a certain point. When we get advanced students we probably are not good skiers enough to enrich them. So, Harald's job is not easy. Neither is PSIA.

-I do not mind if he does not have a Las Vegas style window for his shop.
Sometimes too bright a window means to me that they do not have something good to sell. I am more a WYSWYG kind of person, not a
gambler. As a mathematician I do know that gambling withoug some sort
of cheating is always going to prove a loss in the end. Just play enough times.

-As a PSIA (although I must be honest and say that I only teach to get a
free season pass at my area, but when I teach I give 100% and I really do
try) instructor and a person who knows the PMTS through the books and the videos, I can tell that some of the language and elements are passing into PSIA. They will never mention Harald name, but it is mostly the top guys who are hostile. The novices when they see me with my Harb Ski Systems hat from Kicking Horse they ask me about and they are curious.
I even got a few to buy Harald's books. Of course this does not make me popular with the Ski School top guys, but I don't care too much. I do teach well to beginners and when I can I take them to the other side of the hill and tell me about Harald and show how the basics of his system work. Some are intringued, others don't care. The real problem with the ski school business is that most students never come back after the first lesson, anyway. Plus I fill some shifts that nobody wants on week-days and so the top guys allow me some freedom. Plus I have a Ph.D and I am one of the only two doctors in a roster of over 100 instructors. When engineers come to take lesson from nearby 3M, IBM sites, etc.. and ask technical questions about skis and boots I can answer at the level they like using Physics. So, I will live a double life as far as I can and infiltrate
Harald's books in my school at least.

- Fun is the key. No fun = skiers are not going to stay on skis. To me fun
means being able to ski double black diamonds. Whoever takes me down those alive becomes my best friend automatically. If they can teach me to drop off a few cliffs I may even mention them in my will!

Hope to see you all in Big Sky in February!

[-- SCSA]

Quick note.

We've got way sidetracked here and I'm partly to blame.

The reason why there's so few PMTS instructors is because HH and company has real high standards. PMTS green is way harder than Level 3.

So that's good business. HH's idea is that he's all about high quality. He'd rather have 3 great teachers than 300 mediocre ones. He doesn't care if HSS grows fast or slow, as long as the high quality is there.

It's great thinking. Pretty basic business principles, really.

So if anyone ever asks why there's so few PMTS instructors, here's their answer.

"Be cool -- drive a small car"

[Mr. M]

I think some of you folks got to at least green level. Now the certification course definitely has a curriculum (I bet it?s PMTS manual books). What I would do to increase the PMTS school capacity / throughput is to rely more on the technology. The portable DVD players are so wide spread nowadays that you may get one for about $200.00 or less. This is the gadget, which in my opinion is of a great potential. You may carry it in a pocket on the slopes. Current videos are designed for watching at home, and their format is not right. It should be a multi-section easy addressable media and it should offer a similar experience to the one you are getting from the audio guide device in the museum. It should be in a format of the regular lessons with demos and tricks shown as a sections and stops for training. Wouldn?t it be nice if I can buy a set of those DVD?s and train at home (small groups are great too, plus people on this Forum already mentioned that PMTS has a COMMON LANGUAGE so everybody understands each other!) and go for a shorter and cheaper certification camp? PMTS must be not only a better skiing teaching system, but also a much cheaper one to get certified and this would accomplish just that

I am also surprised why the ski schools are not using those gadgets. Sure you can buy a group lesson @ $50 or personal @ $250 or so, but why can?t you rent a DVD player for 10-20 bucks and spend a day doing a self-study? Probably because they would like for people to think that skiing is some kind of ?black magic? and only qualified wizard (teacher) may show you the right way. Only a teacher may lead you and you are dumb by definition. The fist answer no matter where you go is ?take a lesson?. Everywhere else they let you study yourself fist, and use the teacher resources for the high expertise resource access, corrections and feedback. But skiing is so special. I believe that PMTS has a capability to defeat this myth.

[Mr. T]

SCSA states:
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The reason why there's so few PMTS instructors is because HH and company has real high standards. PMTS green is way harder than Level 3.
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Now, let's try not to go overboard. If we start saying things like this then very few are going to take us seriously. We will always be some kind of underground cult at best.

PMTS' exams are different than PSIA. Maybe Blue Level and Black Level
could be better than PSIA level 3. No way Green Level is better than Level
3 PSIA at least as long as you look at the skills required to pass the exam.
At least as far as skills are involved. Teaching maybe, but you do not send
a Green PMTS instructor to teach a student how to ski the whole mountain.
So, at least Green PMTS and Level 3 PSIA play different roles.

In level 3 PSIA they require one ski skiing on both legs and with complete turns on blue/black runs (at least they do in the Midwest), mogul skiing,
etc.. PMTS does not require that. I have the instructor manual for PMTS
One ski skiing is only introduced at the Blue/Black and Black Levels depending on the specific drill required.

I hope that Harald clarifies this issue. After all he was level 3 PSIA and member of the Demo Team for PSIA. Now, I do not think that fully certified PSIA instructors are just "smucks". I have seen several skiing and they ski well and come down more or less from any terrain.

And let's try to be a little more politically correct. We need to be a little bit wiser "politically" speaking. If we make enemies everywhere we go, as I said before we are just going to be a cult and eventually we are going to be looked upon with suspicion.

Enough bashing, back to skiing. Jump off cliffs, straightline chutes on expert terrain... Back to work on skis, stop the mouths and the insults.

[Mr. T]

On the use of DVD player on the slopes.
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Mr. M yours is not a bad idea. I do use that. In addition my cell phone allows me to shoot short movies and I use this feature with friends or when I teach. One can tape two turns on the cell phone and review them
going up the lift or after stopping.

But, here we are talking more and more gadgets, hence more and more money. Average person can't afford this. Skiing is already way too expensive.

Plus, remember that when skiing you can fall, and gadgets are capable of
being damaged. Not everybody can afford $2-300 dollars dvd players and break them from time to time. Ski schools are not going to provide them for the same reasons.

Make skiing cheaper and people will go skiing more often, will take more lessons and practice more. Unfortunately the industry is going the other way around.

Global warming and high prices are going to kill the sport.

If there is one thing that I feel positive 100% in commending is Harald's prices for camps. They are not cheap, but given that the instruction is of the highest standard, there are no dead times, and they manage to pay attention to all 6 students in the group (my group at Kicking Horse), etc.
I think he is making ski instruction more affordable. When I go to Vail and
take a lesson with a small group, I pay more, get less out of it and always end up feeling cheated in the end. Not to mention of all the other bucks I need to kick out to ski in places like Vail.

[Little Devil]

It seems to me that Mr. T is probably one of the few realist persons here.

Most of the others talk like an individual could just ski and do little else, she could buy any kind of gadget it was ever introduced, or if she could just take classes or camps with famous instructors.

I like what Mr. T said about skiing in general: it is way too expensive. And the fact that most of you seem to be 40-50-year old gives me the impression that PMTS is really only for rich middle-aged people who can take a lot of time off work or that are lucky enough not to have to work at all. Then I guess that PSIA is for us, average persons with very limited budgets and time to ski.

I think that skiing is becoming the Winter version of what golf is in the Summer. I am probably going to switch to snowboard.