Who is using Harb Carvers, What is your experience.

[piggyslayer]

Who is using Harb Carvers, What is your experience.

I have a Pro model for couple of months now and I love my carvers. The sensation is so close to skiing that I am actually starting to feel almost OK about living in NJ (the keyword is almost).

It is hard to say how long it took me to transfer my questionable skills from inlines/skis simply because I am still making progress.
I am spending 1-2 hours (1-2 sessions) each week on Carvers typically late evening under street lights so it is a little bit cooler.
Making turns on them was not hard; I made some on the first day. Making more decent turns took some time, about 6 hourly sessions.

At the beginning I had hard time keeping my feet aligned and the inside foot was moving forward at the beginning of each turn. This condition disappeared after 6 days (hours) of trying.
For 8-10 days (hours), the only turns I could do where long-mid radius. Duct tape slalom (use color tape!) helped with that. I still cannot do turns on one leg. I think this is purely headologicial.

What is funny, I seem to improve every other time I go out on Carvers. I have one day of progress, one day of regression, one of progress, and so on.
I can?t wait for winter. I think it will be great to interleave carvers and skis to mix and match the experience and link muscle memory from one activity to the other.

I skate on neighborhood streets and I am on constant lookout for smooth residential hilly roads. I am outgrowing my current training street. If you know some in central NJ let me know.

Who else is into carvers? Anyone in NJ? What are your experiences? Where do you skate? Do people stop you and ask what the hell are you doing?

[SkierSynergy]

For those of you looking for good butt and hip protection while carving or using inline skates, here are the best protection shorts I have seen. Go to:


http://www.mountain-master.com/boarding ... cts.htm#us

Scroll down the page about half way and you will see

1) Crash Pads padded shorts

and

2) Hillbilly butt and hip pads (these are my favorite).

[Jeff Markham]

I received my Carvers (slalom model) in May. The first thing that I noticed was that they were more stable side-to-side than my inline skates. The bad thing was that I also noticed how poor my fore-aft balance was. In addition, I realized that I simply did not have basic skating skills. Because of this, I was very uneasy on the Carvers and could see that this unease would get in the way of taking full advantage of them.

Now, I had purchased some inlines year or so ago, with the intention of dryland training as shown on the Harb Ski Systems site. However, to my discredit, I never invested the effort required to develop the basic skating skills required for the dryland exercises.

So, given my unease on the Carvers, I decided to take some inline skating lessons in order to build basic skating skills. The idea was to gain enough skill to resume work with the Carvers. In this regard, I was fortunate. Because of the 2002 Winter Olympics, Salt Lake City is home to quite a few world-class speedskaters. It turned out that Eric Kraan, a World Cup speedskater, lives and trains here and is hoping to skate for Mexico in the 2006 Winter Olympics. Eric and his wife Kim run a skate school (both inline and ice) (http://home.att.net/%7Eskatenow) and are big supporters of skating. So, I hooked up with Eric and took eight inline skate lessons.

At first, I was very uneasy regarding the drills which were part of the curriculum, because they were overtly rotary in nature. Obviously, being a PMTSer, I was very concerned about rotary movements creeping into my skiing technique. However, I decided that it was worth the risk because I was seeing such improvement in my skating skills. I decided that I would drop the whole inline skating thing if I saw ANY rotary movements showing up in my Carver technique. As it turned out, these rotary-based drills were apparently only building blocks towards developing a speedskating stroke. As far as I can tell -- and I am certainly no expert -- the speedskating stroke does not employ rotary movements to create forward motion.

At any rate, I was hugely enjoying the inline lessons, but they are over until after I put in some time on my skates. So, it seemed like a good time to go back to the Carvers. That *was* the goal, after all.

So far, I've only been back out twice on the Carvers. The first I noticed was that my balance issues had disappeared. The second was how much easier it was to stroke uphill now that I had a clue how to do it.

I started out with the stepping garland exercises. By the end of the first hour, I was linking turns without stepping, albeit with a lack of dynamics. My second time out, I went directly into the linked turns. One thing I have noticed is how much more aware I am of tipping and "edges" -- even more so than on snow. So far, my boots are very close together -- at least as close as on skis. If I am having a problem at this stage, it is with excessive lightening of my free foot.

I am very happy that I have not seen any of the dreaded rotary movements from my inline skating drills creeping into my Carver technique.

So, there's a lot of work ahead of me on the Carvers, but they are *fun* now. If only it weren't so blasted HOT out there....

And, thanks to the Carvers, I have another activity (inline skating) which complements my skiing. Who knows, I may even get out on the Olympic Oval next winter. That will give me something to do when I can't be on skis.

[*SCSA]

I haven't been on them yet, but I'm pretty sure I'll take home a pair once I do.

If they're everything I've heard, I'm sure they're even more than that, they have such great potential.

In Vail, the big thing for visitors is renting a mountain bike. How about if the ski school started promoting the carvers? They could do a promotion to the affect of, "Come spend an hour with our ski school staff, learn how to be a better skier. You'll get a coupon for a discounted ski lesson and a weekend ski getaway. "

Vail wins because they get to promote their ski school in the summer, something they've never really had the ability to do before. They get to promote their ski school to skiers and non-skiers alike (because anyone who can roller blade can ride the carvers). Visitors win because they come to town, leave with a great coupon for the upcoming season, and they learn about the carvers. Vail could even give everyone who attends a free DVD, packed with promos about the mountain, etc. Visitors could carve around the village lead by ski instructors. This would give such a great impression to them. The big talk in Vail right now is how to get the destination skiers back. If I was in marketing, promotions centered around the carvers would be at the top of my list, for the summer.

For creative marketers, I think the carvers present a first of it's kind opportunity, to sell the sport and lessons. Of course for those with interest in skiing, the carvers present an opportunity to do real ski training during the summer. No traveling to Chile or Mt. Hood needed. Just strap on the carvers and go find some pavement.

Like how about NYC? I can imagine the carvers being a huge hit in Central Park -- they'd be the latest rage. Same thing in LA. The carvers give resort operators an opportunity to truly sell skiing year round. They could be packaged with boots and skis. These carvers are the biggest thing yet.

[*SCSA]

Folks, it's like this.

You can say what you want about us. But the facts are, no one is doing more for skiing than HH and company.

You want to know what's really going on in skiing? Hang out here. Were spending our own money, coming up with great stuff that, in the end, sells more ski tickets. Yeah sure, we beetch about the gang. But all they would have to do to fix their stuff is read this site. You wanna find out where all the holes are in your product, gang members? Hang out here. They should be paying us, for debugging their product.

PMTS has all the stuff, to sell more lift tickets. It makes it so that skiing is easier to learn. It makes it so that it's inexpensive to learn. It promotes return business. Because after all, if people learn to ski great, they'll ski more.

Look at the carvers. They're not a gimmic. They improve skiing ability and promote the sport year round. When I get my carvers, you watch. All my buddies will see me carving up and down Brush Creek -- they'll have to have some. My buddy Ray, I know once he sees me on them, he'll be ordering a pair.

HH and company are doing more for this sport than everyone else combined, times 10. Meanwhile, HH can't get an article written about him in the big ski rags, because the editors are gang members. Remember, he hurt their feelings. I defy anyone out there, to show me anyone, whose doing more for the sport than HH and company. Matter of fact, I'll go you one better. If anyone out there can show me anyone whose doing more for the sport than HH and company, I'll show up to your hill at my expense, and do wedge turns.

[piggyslayer]

What SCSA is saying is good.
I noticed that if I skate Carvers on Streets (recently I only do that) nobody stops and asks what are these things.
If I do that in a park I get a lot of questions.

Unfortunately, close to where I live all park roads are either flat or heavy traffic. The pedestrian/hiking and bike roads are just too narrow in all close by parks.

I am thinking that closer to winter (October/November) when people are more into skiing I will take a train and do some turns in Central Park.
(This will give me more motivation to improve and maybe will raise some interest among folks here who use skates to train for winter.)

[Harald]

My experience with Harb Cavers covers the total spectrum from US Ski Team skiers to intermediate skiers.

Intermediate or beginner skiers:
If you remember your path to parallel skiing you might recall there were a few leaps of faith. Harb Carvers accelerate your skiing learning because they raise your balancing ability and skills, which requires confidence and leaps of faith. As long as the leaps are small and controllable, that?s OK. Harb Carvers offer the skier the ability to develop a high sense of balance and an awareness of controlling balance, that learning solely on skis doesn?t provide.

Depending on your skiing level, strengths and weaknesses, you can structure your training and practice to match your needs. Learning to skate-stroke and little toe edge step turns alone will increase your skiing control and confidence. I have one skier who could not turn his first few times on the Harb Carvers, but after a month of daily half hour sessions he was making slalom turns on three percent slopes.

Balance can be improved and improved tremendously, but few skiers know how to do it. The guidelines in the Harb Carver brochure will get you started and within a few weeks you will be making turns. Start on un-intimidating flat wide open parking lots and practice your basic skills until you can move freely and generate your own speed with skating strokes. It doesn?t take long to find you sweet spot on the Cavers.

Racers and Experts:
We have many experts using the Carvers. Strangely not all experts have the same success. I have experience teaching Masters Racers and top junior racers, some get it immediately, even after ten minutes they are making turns on 5% slopes, which are fairly steep. Others have difficulty at first. I find this is directly attributable to their on snow technique. Even experts have technical weaknesses. Harb Carvers show up every weakness. Some skiers may not want to see their weaknesses so obviously exposed, but those that truly want to get better, won?t care about a short period of ego strain to realize the benefits to their skiing.

Some examples of movements that experts have which cause trouble on Harb Carvers are:
1. Big toe edge dominant at engagement
2. Big toe edge Step-off
3. Up an down movements
4. Turning by steering the skis to an edge (this just doesn?t work on Harb Carvers) it doesn?t work on snow, it doesn?t work if you want to increase your skiing ability either.

These technical weaknesses may not be so obvious on snow because skiing on snow is very forgiving. The weakness can quickly be observed on Carvers and corrected. We found many of the World Junior Racers stomping on the big toe edge at the release. This is a big time loser on snow, but on ice it looks OK. After these racers skied on Carvers they learned a smoother, progressive, pressure application, which made them faster on snow.

My feeling is that everyone who is on Harb Carvers is learning faster and realizing more about their skiing than they possibly could with years of on snow instruction. Now there is a tool that will make a difference to your skiing.

The next step is to work with people who want to learn to ski on Carvers and take them to snow after they learn to make turns on Carvers. This will be the true test and could revolutionize the sport. It could bring the sport to cities with no snow and prepare people to come skiing already knowing how to turn. Image if you could skip the dreaded first week of beginner lessons. That is my vision, I have lots of visions, and hopefully this one takes less time to come through.

Watch for Harb Carver Camps this fall. We offer afternoon Harb Carver sesssions at our Mt Hood summer camps, check of rhte next summer June Camp.

If you have a group of ten, Diana and I will travel to bring you Harb Carver sesssions this summer. We will bring demo Carvers for the group to use. Contact us at 303-567-4663

[Jeff Markham]

#1, these things are a blast! Even if they weren't improving my skiing, they would be worthwhile just for the fun I'm having.

Since my earlier reply, I have found that they just get more fun every time. Perhaps more important, I find myself improving every time I go out. Between the sheer fun and noticeable improvement, I don't have any problem motivating myself to get out on them. The only thing keeping me from getting out daily is the heat here in SLC. It gets downright toasty on the asphalt.

For some reason, I find that all aspects of my "skiing" are more noticeable on the Carvers: tipping, etc. It's just much easier to focus on movements. I think that one reason is that there are no other skiers to avoid and cause distractions.

I can definitely say that the Carvers promote tipping. If you are lazy about tipping, you won't be on the Carvers.

Lately, I've been working on flexing and the Strong Arm. As far as I can tell, there is nothing in the PMTS repertoire which cannot be performed on the Carvers, but there are things I haven't tried yet.

Also, the Carvers are good for learning speed control. On skis, I think that I sometimes skid to bleed off speed. You simply can't do this on the Carvers.

So, if any of you folks are sitting on the fence about getting a pair of Carvers, don't wait. The ski season will soon be here. Yes, they are somewhat pricey, but I'm getting my money's worth and more.

SCSA, what are you waiting for?

And no, I'm not getting compensated for this endorsement.

[Hobbit]

I agree with what Jeff is saying.

SCSA, I am surprised that you don?t have the Carvers yet!
You?ll be sorry for one thing only ? how many ?Carvers? days you?ve missed.

Seriously, get on the Carvers and you?ll probably stop counting the days to the next season .

No, you will still be counting, as all of us do, but you'll be in a differnt mood .

[*SCSA]

Thanks guys,

I was going to make a trip down to Dumont later this month. I hope they still have some left!

[Harald]

SCSA,

I'm at Mt Hood. Ill be back next week about August 10th. Leave your number on the machine I'll call you.

[*SCSA]

HH,
I'm riding my bike again.

[Jim]

OK - I think I'm ready to take the leap and buy a pair. I saw the recommendations on models but does anybody have user feedback on the different models? My rollerblading experience is on medium to flat parking lots where the asphalt is smoooth. I can run the cones but usually still like a nice long runout at the bottom. My skiing level is terminal intermediate(!). Should I go for the slalom or the pro model?

[*SCSA]

Jim,

Call HH tomorrow -- he's the one to ask. His # is 303-567-4663.
Once you get back on the snow, let us know if they helped.

Be cool,

[SkierSynergy]

Hey Jim

I'm not sure where in the country you are. If you can't get a hold of Harald right away, I'm in POrtland Oregon and I have all models of Carvers in stock. I would be glad to talk with you and I can ship them immediately.

Jay Peterson -- SkierSynergy
(503) 998-8259