Two schools/two examples

[Sidecut]

Yes it is sad. This is a skier with parents that do not ski. He was introduced by school and to their credit the parents have continued to support it. Because of this the child is actually known to the ski school. He has been a regular for all of these years and yet no one from the school has said "hey wait a minute, what's happening here". When we were at dinner his dad said to me, "so how is he doing, am I getting my monies worth?". This was at a full table and I nearly choked on my prime rib! However, It's not only sad at the individual level but also on a macro level.

The NSAA and SAM have been crying for years now over the flat line that is skier visits. They have been "partnering" with PSIA to increase these visits because the instructors are the front line ambassadors of the sport. So PSIA rahs rahs about skiing with a pro and increasing skier visits while the industry imports unqualified kids to teach skiing or uses their own poorly trained staffed that is indoctrinated in an ineffective methodology. The result is people who can't ski. I believe that the higher your skill level the higher your enjoyment and the more addictive it becomes. For example, the ultimate experience of skiing powder is something that many people who ski hate because they don't have the fundamental skills necessary.

On an individual level it's a shame and a rip off and on a business level the industry is killing itself.

[Tuomo]

When we were at dinner his dad said to me, "so how is he doing, am I getting my monies worth?"

So what did you answer?
Were you honest and if you were what happened? Did the the dad stop funding his son's skiing.

[Baja1]

You guys are all so nice. I tell my kids they are coming skiing and doing drills (without complaining) or no movies, tv, or video games. Works like a charm.

LOL! Ahhh, Max...

You WILL have fun, dammit!!!! Now let's go... javelin turns for the next 4 hours!!!


I definitely agree with Harald that these two kids show different fundamental movements, and their differences have little to do with athletic ability, physical development, or individual style. I did notice the boy's twin tips after his first couple of turns, but he would ski that same way if he were on SL skis. Sadly, his skiing definitely looks like the product of most PSIA lessons I have seen.

[BigE]

I agree that the boys training has resulted in this terrible skiing. Sorry, but there is no better word for it. It is certainly not his fault.

The girl, while not perfect, is better. I do see her "dumping the hip" inside to generate edge angles -- little else can be done when you are skiing too far back -- but I'd prefer to see that than the 14 y.o. boys movement patterns anyday, since her technique can easily be improved.

The boy literally has to start over.....It is very sad to see such results from so much time, effort and money spent.

An athletic 14 y.o. would ski far better than that if you simply left them alone. It takes a real effort to screw up a kid's skiing that badly. The fact that he has learned to ski like that tells me he is very trainable. I'd find a race-oriented coach to re-train the boy. Someone that is willing to teach proper technique. There is no reason for anyone with athletic ability to ski like that.

[Sidecut]

When we were at dinner his dad said to me, "so how is he doing, am I getting my monies worth?"

So what did you answer?
Were you honest and if you were what happened? Did the the dad stop funding his son's skiing.

I told him that he would have more fun skiing with us than going to ski school. He then spent the rest iof teh time taking a couple of runs in the AM with us and then went off to the park with my son.

One of the problems is that there is no real alternative for him. Big E suggest a race coach but I know of no race or training programs that are not seasonal. This is someone who skis on vacation and the occasional weekend. So the only alternative is private instruction which is very expensive. At least the area didn't take another $1,000 off the family.

[Sidecut]

Someone that is willing to teach proper technique. There is no reason for anyone with athletic ability to ski like that.

What's really unique and interesting is that this is someone who has literally learned to ski in one ski school and who has spent 99% of his time on snow in a class. It's a remarkable insight. Once again this is a "top" school at a large destination mountain.

[jbotti]

My 8 year old daughter is proof of BigE's point. She has been skiing since she was 3, but she listens to virtually nothing that I say when it comes to skiing. She has been taught some by me, and some by some PSIA teachers and she has learned alot by just being on skis as much as she has. Her movement patterns are vastly superior to the 14 year old boys. This seems to prove the point that no instruction is often better than bad instruction.

[h.harb]

There are many scientific studies that prove exactly that. In England they have done extensive studies about learning with external cues. It’s better to have no cues at all, than to have PSIA cues, is what I got out of those studies. So if you want to improve more quickly or learn correctly, stay away from lessons. You are better off reading a book.

[François]

Perhaps it's already been said, but that's just sad .

I must say I'm really glad I taught my self how to ski out of an old book, and speeding down everything I could find imitating WC DH skiers instead of wasting money at a "ski school". The CBC commentators apparently did a better job teaching people how to ski..."he lost some time in this corner when he couldn't keep that ski carving cleanly" (I'm paraphrasing; it's been a long time).

All is not lost. The kid no doubt has developed some balance, and other skills. Show him how a ski works, get him to tip and forget about everything else he's been taught and he should be able to rip with some some time spent just free skiing. Oh yeah get him on some supershapes

[Sidecut]

My friend sent me this link:

http://mysnowpro.com/jonathanlawson/2008/03/easter_weekend_2008.php#comments

CHeck out the similarity of this boy to our boy here. He's on steeper terrain although much better snow. Some of it is scary in it's similarity

[jbotti]

All the kids look like they are having fun. I know they would be having a lot more fun if they had some reall tools to deal with the gravity!!!

[tdk6]

Someone that is willing to teach proper technique. There is no reason for anyone with athletic ability to ski like that.

What's really unique and interesting is that this is someone who has literally learned to ski in one ski school and who has spent 99% of his time on snow in a class. It's a remarkable insight. Once again this is a "top" school at a large destination mountain.

I allways sterss the importance to the students be it kids or adults to practise, practise and practise outside of class. There is no use of comming to come to class if you havent been skiing by your own. Its not a waste of money if you get proper instruction but you would be getting more out of your instruction if you practise what you have learned in class on your own. Milage is crusial. Same applies to the piano.

IMHO a talented absolute beginner only needs to understand one or two thing in order to ski better than most other low level skiers out on the mountain after only a one hour lesson and a couple of days of practise on their own. But its not obvious to the absolute beginner and it can feel somewhat contradicting at first since its your skis and their side cut and edges that makes you turn and you controll your ski and edges edges by body movements, leg and complementary upper body movements such as counterbalancing and counteracting and not by directly forcing them to go the way you want by cranking and rotating them arround or picking them op off the snow to point in the desired direction. Im not sure if what I just said matches up perfectly with PMTS fundamentals but my point is that its very simple if you are correctly instructed. In some cases the right movements come naturally without any or much instruction. Guess what, usually that happens with girls and not with boys. Very important with the boy in this particular case is that he isnt told he is a bad skier. That I see as one of the biggest challenges when it comes to his further progress.

[A.L.E]

My friend sent me this link:

http://mysnowpro.com/jonathanlawson/2008/03/easter_weekend_2008.php#comments

CHeck out the similarity of this boy to our boy here. He's on steeper terrain although much better snow. Some of it is scary in it's similarity

But that is "upper level skiing"....isn't it? .......the client's will be chuffed.

[Bolter]

I know this instructor, I worked with him at Breckenridge. Looks like he has clients with $$ who demand to ski steep terrain for the challenge and need someone to video their conquests. This is an empty accomplishment, hollow and painful to watch. Cheer leading and false praise is the only way to get through a lesson like that. We can hope that the video will wake these people up but I doubt that will happen. I wonder how much that "Lesson" cost those people?

That entire scene reeks of a$$ kissing to me and money for nothing- chicks for free?

JR

[A.L.E]

I know this instructor, I worked with him at Breckenridge. Looks like he has clients with $$ who demand to ski steep terrain for the challenge and need someone to video their conquests. This is an empty accomplishment, hollow and painful to watch. Cheer leading and false praise is the only way to get through a lesson like that. We can hope that the video will wake these people up but I doubt that will happen. I wonder how much that "Lesson" cost those people?

That entire scene reeks of a$$ kissing to me and money for nothing- chicks for free?

JR

On the other hand he could be just very proud of his students....