Tipping practice off the hill

PMTS Forum

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby h.harb » Fri May 23, 2008 5:52 pm

On the “Skier's Edge” there is no resistance to tipping on the platforms, with shoes or with ski boots on. In actual skiing, the beginner's and intermediate’s biggest problem is learning how to tip against resistance.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby 4Slide » Sat May 24, 2008 11:20 am

The tipping resistance really makes the Harb Carvers tough to beat for bang-for-buck crosstraining as regards tipping and active or dynamic balance.
-J
4Slide
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:56 am
Location: NE

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby h.harb » Sat May 24, 2008 2:43 pm

The irony is that skiing gets easier as you get better. Experts encounter little tipping resistance in transition except for overcoming the mass of the skis and boots: because they are practically weightless, due to retraction or flexing in transition. Skiers who don’t release with enough knee bending or “foot sucking-up” have to deal with the ski's tipping resistance on the snow. Unfortunately, we have to teach most people to tip before we can teach them to pull the skis from the snow.

Most skiers push against the snow to create reactions "they think" are necessary to stay balanced or to have the skis engaged. As we know this is not only false, but detrimental to your development to expert skiing.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby arothafel » Mon May 26, 2008 12:03 pm

My friends just bought the Wii Fit interactive game. It has Wii Ski.

Here's something else that really, Really DOESN'T work! So, don't waste any money thinking this could be any kind of PMTS training vehicle. Not even close.

Nonetheless, it was fun! More about identifying your center of balance than anything else.

So far, the Carvers win, hands-down, for off-season ski simulation.

Hope you guys have an awesome time at Mt. Hood...

Art
User avatar
arothafel
 
Posts: 637
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:04 pm
Location: Villa Park, California

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby h.harb » Mon May 26, 2008 1:53 pm

We will miss you. Especially the Carver sessions.
For those coming to camp,
I have five Comp demos I'll bring to the camp and 5 Pro model demos.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Larry_in_ME » Thu May 29, 2008 8:55 am

I tossed around in earlier post words like "foot/feet awareness". Since then, I've purchased "Anyone Can Be an Expert Skier 1". After reading this text a bit, the terminology is used there, so HH deserves credit for the terminology I used.

The tipping practice, along with some dryland training I'm following in "Anyone Can Be an Expert Skier 1" (tipping the free foot) is helping with the coordination of my feet. Also, balancing practice on a teeter board in helping too. Since I'm a beginner, I'm spending a lot of time on tipping to make sure I have it right and for it to become second nature--just like HH suggests in his Essentials book.
Larry_in_ME
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 6:38 am

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby h.harb » Thu May 29, 2008 4:00 pm

Thanks Larry keep it up, hope to see you at camp one day.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Larry_in_ME » Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:57 pm

You're very welcome.

I practice dryland training 4 to 5 times a week, for about 15 minutes or so each time.
Also, I bike about 50 miles a week and do vmo circuit exercises 4 to 5 times a week.
And I'm thinking of adding more exercises, just haven't figured out what I want to do yet.
Perhaps a wheelbarrow push and/or some type of squat for strength.

A goal of mine is to attend one or more of your camps with my son.

Anyway, I'll post my skiing progress when the snow flies again.

More to come.

Larry....

PS: If I have questions, I'll post them :)
Larry_in_ME
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 6:38 am

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Ken » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:50 am

h.harb wrote:The irony is that skiing gets easier as you get better. Experts encounter little tipping resistance in transition except for overcoming the mass of the skis and boots: because they are practically weightless, due to retraction or flexing in transition.
So true. The weightlessness is alternated with exhilarating g-forces. When the beginning PMTS skier allows their hips to cross the skis is when the real fun starts. It's kind'a like taking the training wheels off the bicycle.
Rooster today
Feather duster tomorrow

VIDEO OF NOT ME
Ken
 
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: Washington, the state

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby Larry_in_ME » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:29 am

I'm so looking forward to the day when skiing becomes easier and the real fun starts :)

I'll share when it happens.
Larry_in_ME
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 6:38 am

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby 4Slide » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:44 am

A follow-up note on tipping resistance and Harb Carvers: My older kid had great results with the carvers towards the end of last season. She'd said herself that she could really feel the carryover. But, she did not find them "fun" in the way that riding her bike in particular is fun. (This makes sense to me both because they do demand more work in some ways than inline skates, and relative to her bodyweight are very heavy relative to modern inlines and demand more work for this reason as well.) So she chose to not keep using them consistently through the summer. She did want to get back on them before this year's season.

This year she's not racing, and on skis that would be the equivalent of 110 or 115 in the waist for an adult. As has been noted here a number of time the resistance to tipping of wider skis can make them very difficult on firm snow. (With kids' different strength-to-weighth ratios, etc. the comparison is I don't think exact; I also think for the majority of conditions and skiers the warnings here about too wide a ski are spot-on and I'm by no means saying that going wide is a good thing for most people. I also may not be skiing this year myself due to a new knee injury (I may simply snowboard all season instead) so take anything from me fwiw.) Anyway, the first day out was obviously an adjustment. Aside from watching her go through a series of tipping drills on-hill to get used to them, she commented she needed to get back on the Carvers and did so over the next week. Harald had mentioned Hermann Gollner's* Carverr drill of having one Carver on and one foot in sneakers, and this seemed to be what she wanted to do the most to help to adjust to the feel of the new skis.

I guess that's a long-winded way of saying they really are great bang for the buck in terms of carryover to the hill.

* I'm having trouble linking to the "Treatise on Harb Carvers" thread but this drill is detailed there and searching Treatise brings up the thread.
-J
4Slide
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:56 am
Location: NE

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby mike » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:00 pm

Image

Wondering if there were any suggestions on how to improve the tipping displayed above.

Not getting much clearance between the boot edges and the board although there is some.

Harald has given some advice which was as follows

"Place your arms out to the side, lower the ramp angle and create angles on the upside down edges before you raise the angle.
The ramp needs to be longer, so the angle is not so sharp. Post it, I think it will be helpful to others".
mike
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:46 pm
Location: Armidale NSW

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby trtaylor » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:09 am

Are you actually tipping? The boot soles appear to be flat on the tipping board. You may have a little tipping going on, but it looks like it is coming from knee drive. That is not good.

Can you pry your boot edges up so both boot soles are off the tipping board at the same time and symmetrical with each other? If not, reduce the angle of the tipping board.
mike wrote:
Wondering if there were any suggestions on how to improve the tipping displayed above.

Not getting much clearance between the boot edges and the board although there is some.

Harald has given some advice which was as follows

"Place your arms out to the side, lower the ramp angle and create angles on the upside down edges before you raise the angle.
The ramp needs to be longer, so the angle is not so sharp. Post it, I think it will be helpful to others".
trtaylor
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:02 am
Location: Bucks County, PA

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby milesb » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:42 am

That's a double diamond board! :shock: Make it a green or blue board, the important thing is to do the movements right, not to be on the steeps. :wink: Do it in front of a mirror if you aren't already (because kittehs don't give very good feedback on this sort of thing). You'll want the knees to line up with the ankle and hips as much as possible- so counterbalance by raising your downhill hip, and then move your upper body even farther uphill. Stay flexed while doing this.
YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH78E6wIKnq3Fg0eUf2MFng
User avatar
milesb
 
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:17 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Tipping practice off the hill

Postby jclayton » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:05 pm

Not much counteracting either . Because of the stressed position ( too steep ) the inside hip looks pulled back the wrong way .
skinut ,among other things
User avatar
jclayton
 
Posts: 1019
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:37 pm
Location: mallorca ,spain

PreviousNext

Return to Primary Movements Teaching System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests