World Cup Tech Update

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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BootsCanyon » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:09 am

She's an extremely good racer, and you're right there's a lot good going on. But, some of the things that could be better are being aggravated by the drill in terms of letting her inside half get back, ending up in a few turns a little too much on the tails of the skis, etc. In terms of playing around with inclination I think the idea is to let the edge engagement happen more slowly in the top half of the turn...but not to lose the bottom half. The drill as shown imo isn't working on the 2d key part...you're correct that without context one can't draw conclusions as to what the end goal was.

It is likely that very few people who aren't quite yet at her level would benefit from the drill.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:36 am

I have it on a good authority that this drill is used on to emphasize to WC athletes to get inside of the turn. It wouldn't be my drill of choice as I think that if there is a drill where you have to ignore certain gross movements in the drill (or unlearn them later), the drill isn't really worth doing - especially at levels lower than the WC.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BigE » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:38 am

It's very challenging to make the commitment required of those turns. Yes, she gets back on a couple turns -- I'll be the farm she knows that, and is working on fixing it.... The drill shows her fore/aft balance is not perfect. But it is a *lot* better than the majority of people.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BigE » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:40 am

HeluvaSkier wrote:I have it on a good authority that this drill is used on to emphasize to WC athletes to get inside of the turn. It wouldn't be my drill of choice as I think that if there is a drill where you have to ignore certain gross movements in the drill (or unlearn them later), the drill isn't really worth doing - especially at levels lower than the WC.


What drill would you prefer to use to "get inside the turn"?
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby Max_501 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:16 am

BigE wrote:What drill would you prefer to use to "get inside the turn"?


I'm wondering why WC athletes would need a drill specifically for getting inside the turn? By the time they reach that level of racing they can already put their hip on the snow whenever they want.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:44 am

BigE wrote:
HeluvaSkier wrote:I have it on a good authority that this drill is used on to emphasize to WC athletes to get inside of the turn. It wouldn't be my drill of choice as I think that if there is a drill where you have to ignore certain gross movements in the drill (or unlearn them later), the drill isn't really worth doing - especially at levels lower than the WC.


What drill would you prefer to use to "get inside the turn"?


Is this a quiz? For athletes at non-WC levels I'd say it is probably better to use drills that promote extreme long-leg/short-leg and lateral balance instead of using this drill (Harald has a number of them in the Essentials). Once you're dealing with high-level athletes (Dev team and up), the hand touch might be safe to use to reinforce getting inside the turn, but certainly not before - for the reasons that some have pointed out above.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BootsCanyon » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:53 am

Max_501 wrote:
BigE wrote:What drill would you prefer to use to "get inside the turn"?


I'm wondering why WC athletes would need a drill specifically for getting inside the turn? By the time they reach that level of racing they can already put their hip on the snow whenever they want.


Yeah, probably most on this forum can put their hip on the snow, or close, using that drill, with good snow on an easy slope. It doesn't take that much commitment. Making linked slalom turns while doing it would be different of course.

Whether you articulate it as getting inside the turn or using inclination to develop the turn, that's the idea, not just dropping the hip.

ps: I need to get video to put up myself, it's on the to-do.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BigE » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:06 am

The drill is more than just getting inside. From her execution, it looks like the hip MUST touch the brush -- look how tall the brushes are....this is a lot more demanding that just getting the hip low to the snow.

I don't see any good reason why kids in race programs can't use this drill. For them, it would be without touching the hip to the brush, just the hand inside. A second brush could be set or the snow painted to provide a touch point. Kids in racing are always doing similar things while freeskiing. Sometimes, they touch inside on a course too.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BootsCanyon » Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:33 pm

Having developing skiers do this encourages them to stick their backside in the air and reach for the snow, and to plant their inside half behind their boots.

I think the suggestion to go back and check out Essentials, or some of Harald's segments that are up on youtube, makes a lot of sense.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby Max_501 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:29 pm

BootsCanyon wrote:Having developing skiers do this encourages them to stick their backside in the air and reach for the snow, and to plant their inside half behind their boots.

I think the suggestion to go back and check out Essentials, or some of Harald's segments that are up on youtube, makes a lot of sense.


I agree completely.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BigE » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:54 am

BootsCanyon and Max,

How does it encourage any of that? If you do that you will fail.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby Max_501 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:54 pm

Reaching to the inside compromises both CA and CB. The correct cue is inside hand up and forward. Reaching to the inside is the opposite of what we want to teach.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BigE » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:22 pm

That is far from sticking your butt in the air.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby h.harb » Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:34 pm

Response to the Ligety alignment question: Hard to believe he already has 4 degrees, looks like he could use 3 more.

The drill (Haley Duke) is doing, is easy for those who already lean and rotate. For those who get CA it's a dismantling exercise. They usually do this drill if the skiers are too exact, get too much edge hold, and are finishing a lot, but are slow. I don't think the US Ski Team has that problem?

The US women this year, barely got one finish per slalom. So the drill is working?
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby h.harb » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:55 pm

Interesting Haley Duke is coming to the Alignment Center Tomorrow for a complete assessment. She has changed boots since that video was taken.
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