World Cup Tech Update

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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby h.harb » Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:48 pm

For someone who starts one degree inside of center to begin with, moving them 4 degrees outside would almost put them out and off the outside edge of the boots. I don’t think Ligety is anywhere near there. But Byggmark may well be 3 degrees outside of center.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby Bolter » Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:23 pm

This is one of those threads that prove "MORE INFO NO BS." Thanks for the insight into these WC skiers setups.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby h.harb » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:43 pm

Thanks Bolter, your opinion is highly regarded here.

You are definitely made of the "more info No BS attitude".
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby WNYSkier » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:25 pm

Harald,

This is a great thread and I'd like to keep it going. A comment and a question:

I just caught up on my reading and saw Ron LeMaster's most recent article in Ski Racing. Interesting that the frames selected in the photo montages seem to skip critical parts of the transition and high-c phase of the turn. This probably isn't a sin of omission, but one of negligence. He doesn't see what is happening if it doesn't fit into his frame of understanding. Hence his multiple references to inclination as the means of creating early edge pressure.....If you watch Matt using Dartfish you get a very different view from Ron's interpretation.

My question carries over from a good thread in January generated by Heluva Skier's earlier posting of his SL MA. You provided a wonderfully concise description of movements from low-c through release and transition into solid edge contact and early direction in high-c for SL turns. Would you be able to compare that movement sequence to a modern GS turn? Specifically, when the current GS courses are set with large offsets, how do the athletes adapt timing and technique to accomodate the longer delay between turns and the resulting challenges to carrying energy from one turn to the next?

Cheers,
Mark
M

Ski well. Ski fast. Have fun.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby h.harb » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:40 pm

Thanks Mark,

I'd love to address this topic, I'm in the middle of a camp at Big Sky right now, but as soon as I get back, I'll look over your request and give you an evaluation. Thank you for your efforts of looking into the transitions of World Cup skiers in more depth than most can understand.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby tarnaby » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:14 am

HeluvaSkier wrote:
h.harb wrote:Here's one with the hand in the snow a no no!!

Image in the snow a no no!!


Yeah - definitely a no-no. Not only can it throw off lateral balance if that low inside hand is driving movement of the inside of the body (shoulders/hips), but when you put a hand down at the speeds you travel at in a carve it really can pull (twist) your upper body into the hill very aggressively. The implications or having it hit snow can be pretty severe.
Later
Greg


I find this thread very interesting. With a hand in the snow being a no no, I've always wondered what the point of drills like the one below with Hailey Duke of the USST. Why do they drill getting their inside hand down on the snow? Is it to practice recoveries? I see this drill all the time on the hill. What is the purpose of that drill? Won't it lessen CB/CA in a big way? Here is the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzwb4rsmLBo
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BigE » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:28 am

As I see the purpose, it is to provide and external cue so that the skier knows they have inclined to a high degree. If they can easily touch the snow, they are doing it right.

The drill is a lateral balance exercise.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby Kiwi » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:19 pm

I am embarrassed that this clip has the words New Zealand attached to it.

This is all bad. How can it be a drill for lateral balance when all the drill does is throw everything out of balance?

You can see the upper body developing rotational movement as the hand and hip drop, next the skis are moving in and out simply so that the inside leg is being used as a prop, then follows an ILE to up unweight for the transition.

Notice how the inside arm is back level with the hip and the skier effectively square to the skies for almost the whole turn. In order to keep this all together the skier achieves inside hip lead but only through extreme tip lead.

It reminds me of the disasterous kids drill the "airplane" where the inside arm (wing) goes down through the turn.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby Max_501 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:35 pm

WC GS tech. BIG flex to release:

Image

HH comments:
The alignment on this set up on Rossingnol is much better than the set up she has now in 2010 on Head. She may have had a great year with the Olympics, but she has to be very discouraged about her slalom and GS results. She used to dominate Slalom with Reisch. This poor season in slalom is directly related to her Head boot set up, which is terrible for technical events.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BigE » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:56 pm

Kiwi wrote:I am embarrassed that this clip has the words New Zealand attached to it.

This is all bad. How can it be a drill for lateral balance when all the drill does is throw everything out of balance?

You can see the upper body developing rotational movement as the hand and hip drop, next the skis are moving in and out simply so that the inside leg is being used as a prop, then follows an ILE to up unweight for the transition.

Notice how the inside arm is back level with the hip and the skier effectively square to the skies for almost the whole turn. In order to keep this all together the skier achieves inside hip lead but only through extreme tip lead.

It reminds me of the disasterous kids drill the "airplane" where the inside arm (wing) goes down through the turn.


Looks ok by me.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby Max_501 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:05 pm

BigE wrote:Looks ok by me.


What looks OK? The lack of CB or the lack of CA?
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BigE » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:35 pm

The drill.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby Icanski » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:07 am

I'm surprised at how wide the stance is at neutral in that montage. Is it possibly due to a bit of recovery?

BTW, the "airplane drill" they do here with kids is that they put arms out like wings and lean to the outside, over the stance leg. But usually the kids lean inside because to them, and correctly so, an airplane drops the inside wing as it banks. It's a case of giving them the wrong image for what you want them to do. Like Pizza and french fries...why do they think a kid can't understand the terms wedge and parallel? They get it in school.

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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BootsCanyon » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:12 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjNakiTsG4E

I could be wrong, but I think that's from 08?? If it is, I think the sequence is roughly seconds 42-44 of the youtube clip. Harald's commented on her alignment before, but at neutral the stance really isn't so wide imo.
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Re: World Cup Tech Update

Postby BigE » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:31 am

Icanski wrote: Like Pizza and french fries...why do they think a kid can't understand the terms wedge and parallel? They get it in school.

Icanski


They can understand wedge and parallel.... it's just way more fun to say pizza and french fries.
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