Types Of Turns

PMTS Forum

Postby Harald » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:47 am

Mechanic, in another post you suggested that you could make the same turn using many different approaches (upper body turning, pointing, tipping etc.). Although this is possible in an ideal environment, by a skilled skier, improvising, it?s irrelevant in the real world. I can?t use the methods you suggest in the bumps, steeps, crud, and powder or on ice. Nor do I want to use these movements, as I am always trying to be efficient when I ski. I am answering the question presented earlier, do different approaches create the same turn and results. All of the approaches suggested on this thread create different turns and quality of turns.

In the early stages of the PMTS progression, movements build with an effective simple turn approach. Later, in the progression varies releases are introduced that require better foot to foot balancing skills. A variety of releases are based on the simple understanding that balancing on one foot is critical to skier learning and more rapid learning. On footed balance can be introduced at any point in the PMTS progression and this never impedes a skier?s learning regardless of how well they balance. Balance can always be improved whether it is through better alignment, footbeds, boots or movement training. My ski teaching and coaching background files the discussion about using varies contrived movements to create artificial results, as an irrelevant topic that doesn?t contribute to better skiing.

Postby Harald » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:49 am

Sorry, but I still don't understand what you mean by pointing. Please describe the mechanics or how to point, what is the outcome?

Mechanic - a question to think about

Postby John Mason » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:49 am

I skied with a long time PSIA instructor a few weeks ago. I was working with my brother in law on his first day of sking. In the late morning after my brother in law - warren, was pretty comfortable on blues, we joined up with the PSIA instructor.

In many ways his approach to skiing was similar. Lift and Tip or lighten and tip to turn focusing all inputs on the inside ski.

But, when we watched this instructor ski, almost always he was diverging his tips as he turned with the inside leg "leading" the turn. He was not staying parallel.

I would imagine what he was visibly doing would be the result or perhaps what you are doing when you ski. Your inside "light" ski is pointing into the next turn and not staying parallel with the weighted outside ski.

This "inside ski pivot" can generate a rotary force on the other leg, but isn't needed to create brushed carves etc. Once the habbit is in there, it would be hard to undo or unlearn. You can control how brushed a crave is by the amount of edging occuring all while controlling the arc of the turn purely by the amount of inside leg tipping.

The problem both my beginner brother in law and I discussed was if you diverge your tips by pointing or leading the turn with the inside leg, then you are by definition lowering your capabilty in all - mountain conditions where either leg might or will be called upon to be your supporting edge. If your skis are not maintaining parallel, then you can find that inside ski, "catch an edge" and go its own direction suddenly and have a nasty spill.

In anycase, I'd be curious if you carefully look at your skiing when you are "pointing" if there is indeed a divergence of your tips when you do this.

I have not skied much powder yet, but I would think if there is divergence of the tips you would be in real problems right off in powder.

I also like that prior post on Pow sking that the 2 footed release is applicable there. I had not thought of that, but it makes sense. If I understand what is being said, in powder, use a very gentle release and engage more at the bottom of the turns.

Without having any oppourtunity for powder I was planning to try the weighted release next. But the, let gravity pull both skies towards the fall line then do an easy phantom move while keeping the weight on both skis would be a very gentle way to do a turn and might work great in powder. An agreesive "weighted release" launch into the new turn on powder may be just "not" what the doctor ordered for this powder beginner.

I would especially see the 2 footed release as a possible way to start your first turn in powder since you got to get some down hill speed going in the first place.

I'd be interested in any thoughts on this (not that I'll see much Pow at PMTS party day)

So, I would think any pointing of the inside ski, would by definition create some rotational force by diverging tips. I would think that diverging tips would be a practice to be avoided in ones skiing. While it may not get one in trouble on groomers, once in bumps or crud, it would be a disaster.
John Mason
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