Most Important Essential

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Most Important Essential

Postby h.harb » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:10 pm

In PMTS everything I have written reduces or eliminates the need to extend the legs in a way that creates pressure to the snow surface or to the skis. This is an important awareness in one?s skiing, but few skiers ever discover it or understand it. Ski instruction obviously doesn?t understand the damaging effects of extending and most coaches don?t realize what it does to skiers. Why are we so adamant about ?no extending?, the answer may not be as obvious as we ? the insiders? of PMTS think. So here is a list for those who are not PMTS aware.


-Extending disconnects the CG from the skis
-Extending pushes the CG away from the balancing point
-Extending eliminates the ability to tip the skis
-Extending delays the entry to the next turn
-Extending eliminates the legs from making quick movements
-Extending or pushing against the snow puts skiers out of balance
-Extending is tiring
-Extending interrupts movement to the next turn or downhill


-Bending makes tipping easier
-Bending the legs increases tipping range
-Bending allow for quick edge changes
-Bending increases terrain absorbing ability
-Bending keeps you closer to the snow
-Bending, the inside leg once skis are engaged draws the hip to the snow
-Bending, the inside leg allows higher tipping and lengthening of the outside leg
-Bending allows foot pull back
-Bending allows you to make tighter arcs, shorter turns and therefore gives skiers more control

When extension is used none of the bending benefits are available.

So what?s the most important Essential, Tipping or Flexing / Bending?.
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Postby Ken » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:46 pm

-Bending the inside leg once skis are engaged draws the hip to the snow
-Bending the inside leg allows higher tipping and lengthening of the outside leg

These two aspects are my present training goal. When I fail to coordinate the extent to which I bend the inside leg with the degree of tipping and the extent I allow the hip to cross the skis and drop toward the snow, I'm riding the inside ski with little control. If I fail to coordinate the bending and tipping with the counter balance, I fall on my butt.

When I extend and pressure the big toe, my ski chatters. When I get everything right, I'm slicing silently over the snow (only hardpack skiing here so far. New snow is falling and expected to continue for the next week).
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Re: Most Important Essential

Postby nwskier » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:32 pm

h.harb wrote:So what?s the most important Essential, Tipping or Flexing / Bending?.


I'll venture a guess ... flexing to release?
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Postby milesb » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:47 pm

Without tipping the skis aren't going to turn unless you steer them. It's tipping.
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Postby skidaddle » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:35 pm

So what?s the most important Essential, Tipping or Flexing / Bending?.


Yes!! :lol:

As in what do you see engraved on a quarter? Heads or tails?

tipping and flexing work together, without one, the other becomes much less effective, natural, efficient etc.
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Postby BigE » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:30 pm

milesb wrote:Without tipping the skis aren't going to turn unless you steer them. It's tipping.


Power release. Flexion creates the turn.
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Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:37 pm

This is an interesting question/topic.

My belief has always been that the most important part of a modern turn is tipping the ski onto it's edge. Without it, can you cannot carve a turn. Sure from an upright position it is not as easy, but it can still be done. When asked what the first movement in a carved turn is I would always default to lighten/tip.

To me this thinking also seems to coincide with PMTS teaching.

True expert skiing is not possible with the ability to flex properly and be dynamic. There is no disputing that flexion is an incredibly important essential, but I do not think it preceeds tipping. Without the ability to properly tip a ski onto its edge, there is almost no need for flexion. Until the student can make proper/effective tipping movements I don't know that there is any use in focusing on the transition.

Can the two movements be taught in reverse with success? I don't know, I have never tried it...

Also... if tipping were not the most important Essential why would Harald be dedicating his entire first Essentials DVD to it?

(http://realskiers.com/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?t=1702)

Flexing and counter balance are second to tipping...

Later

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Postby Icanski » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:53 am

"Let me repeat that tipping movements are the foundation of skiing. Proper tipping allows and directly enables necessary components of expert skiing, like edge hold."

and also: "tipping is the most important of the essentials for two reasons. First, tipping actions of the feet and legs activate the kinetic chain, encouraging the rest of the body to maintain balance. Second, tipping is the movement that happens closest to the snow, and the snow is the only solid surface with which we interact in skiing. Establishing a strong relationship to the base of support--that is, contact between feet, boots, skis, and snow--should come first in your skiing. Thus tipping is the foundation for edge grip, edge change, ski performance, balance, and terrain absorption."

Page 4, "Essentials of Skiing"

I think that answers the question. I hope this isn't cheating, it's just so darn succinct.
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Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:10 pm

I didn't know this was an open book test. 8)
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Postby A.L.E » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:54 pm

As an intermediate PMTS student I found that the feeling of tipping to the little toe edge was restricted greatly until I started to flex.
The more I worked on staying flexed the easier the tipping action became.
The more I tipped the easier carving became.
The more I tipped the greater the need for counterbalance.

Flexing was definately the key for me. It was the prerequisite for enhanced tipping skill developement, which then brought into play all the other Essentials.
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Postby Icanski » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:48 pm

ALE
For me, one of the big changes came when I could get my feet under my hips and pull back. The fore aft balance was a key. My old Lange boots had me so locked that I couldn't really flex much or pull back. New boots and alignment last Spring at the skunk works, and from the first turns at A-Basin I could sense much more freedom to flex, pull back and tip. There was an immediate improvement in my comfort, technique, and my fun factor went way up.
However, even with all that movement, if I can't tip, I can't turn. The exercise where Harald had us bend over, put our hands on our boots and slide a bit, then tip the boots, and we turned put it there for me. I wasn't flexing, or extending (I couldn't) just tipping basically; so for me, it's tipping. I can't change direction without it. (unless I up unweight, pivot my feet and steer!......juuuuuuust kidding :wink: :twisted: )
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Postby Ken » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:15 pm

My experience is the same as A.L.E.'s. I can't get effective tipping with out correct flexing.
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Postby A.L.E » Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:13 am

Icanski wrote:ALE
For me, one of the big changes came when I could get my feet under my hips and pull back. The fore aft balance was a key. My old Lange boots had me so locked that I couldn't really flex much or pull back. New boots and alignment last Spring at the skunk works, and from the first turns at A-Basin I could sense much more freedom to flex, pull back and tip. There was an immediate improvement in my comfort, technique, and my fun factor went way up.
However, even with all that movement, if I can't tip, I can't turn. The exercise where Harald had us bend over, put our hands on our boots and slide a bit, then tip the boots, and we turned put it there for me. I wasn't flexing, or extending (I couldn't) just tipping basically; so for me, it's tipping. I can't change direction without it. (unless I up unweight, pivot my feet and steer!......juuuuuuust kidding :wink: :twisted: )
Icanski


Actually the first time a PMTS instructor watched me ski he said to pull the inside foot back. That was before I had attended a camp and it made a huge difference to my skiing. My wife was in the camp and I was looking after our 3 kids, luckily I got to have a little ski with the PMTS instructor after she finished the camp. That initial big improvement had me hooked so I came back the next year for my own camp. All those ski school lessons I'd taken were a complete waste of money.

So I guess I agree with you, I had to pull the foot back before the flexing and tipping worked effectively.
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