PMTS and deep powder

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PMTS and deep powder

Postby Mr. T » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:48 pm

I wonder if any of you has experienced PMTS in deep powder. I mean
waist-deep or at least tigh-deep or more.

I was in Alta the past week-end and I hired a guy to take me around. He took me to places with 3-4 feet of powder. We skied down East Greeley and Greeley Bowl (for those of you familiar with Alta) and the guide earned his money finding stashes for me here and there. It was my first time in deep powder and it was also snowing so I could see really little and perhaps I tensed up more than I should have.
But, be as it may, I got down pretty much safe and in control having to sit down a couple of times only for I gained too much speed to feel comfortable in those white-out conditions. I tried to think PMTS, but in reality all I could do was just try to keep up with my skis and try not to end up too much on the tails. Basically I was trying to push with my inside leg to create an angle while holding my feet together, but more often than not I could tell I was also banking with my body to help initiate the turn and try to skid some speed away in between turns...

Does anybody have any advice? 1 feet of powder is OK but, even if the sensation of floating in this powder was one of the most beautiful I've ever experienced, I felt like an interloper who did not belong up there.
I assume that exercise makes perfect, but does PMTS as we know it really work in 3-4 foot or perhaps even deeper powder? Or does one need to change a few elements of it to adapt to the new terrain?

Thank you for your much appreciated suggestions.
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Postby -- SCSA » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:56 pm

3 or 4 feet of milk?

OH, MY, GAWD!

"ERrrrrrrrrrrrrrt. Sound of SCSA's tourist trophey, peeling out of driveway, on way to Utah."

I've used the same turn since I started. I was just making turns in, ahem, about knee high (no 3 or 4 feet :cry: ) all day yesterday. "Release, transfer, engage." I'm tipping my skis all the time, no matter what.

I use the Primary Movements, albeit with slight variations, no matter the terrain or conditions.
-- SCSA
 

Postby milesb » Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:05 pm

You answered your own question. If you're back on your skis, even PMTS won't work. If you are thinking about speed control in snow that deep, it's not going to work. Hate to say it, but the guy you hired should have had you doing more low angle stuff, where you could feel comfortable keeping the skis more in the fall line. But I can hardly blame him for having fun!
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Postby Hobbit » Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:12 pm

I wish I have a chance to try 4 feet deep pow :wink: . If you are interested in the expert advise look up the book "Ski the Whole Mountain" by Eric and Rob DesLauries. They have a dedicated chapter on deep powder and their technique is based on PMTS I believe.
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Postby Mr. T » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:09 am

-- SCSA wrote:3 or 4 feet of milk?

OH, MY, GAWD!

"ERrrrrrrrrrrrrrt. Sound of SCSA's tourist trophey, peeling out of driveway, on way to Utah."


What is the SCSA's tourist trophey? :oops:
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Postby Mr. T » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:15 am

The problem with PMTS I am having in this kind of deep powder is that if one shortens the inside leg to tip the ski, there is the risk to take away the weight from that leg ending up with feet on two different levels and skis aiming in different directions and a likely face plant. The reason I was banking with my body is probably due to the fact that I was making a special effort not to shorten the inside leg, to keep equal weight on both legs (or sufficiently close to this ideal distribution) while still trying to create an angle by tipping it which was not very easy for me at least. One foot of pow is OK, no big modification required if any at all, but once you don't feel the bottom anymore things are quite different
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Postby -- SCSA » Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:37 am

Hi Mr. T,

tourist trophy stands for tt. I have a luv bug!

Back to your question, I will say this. In the pow pow, I do use more a two footed release; I'm flexing both legs, to release and start the new turn. That's what HH recommends, too.

later, :arrow:
-- SCSA
 

Postby jclayton » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:42 am

Hi all ,
I've got a reply for this one . I have found that the outside leg does retract more than the inside one at transition when keeping the legs relaxed thus it is then a bit shorter when it becomes the inside one.

The key for me is keeping the base angles the same , the retraction happens automatically i.e. the inside leg does shorten but it still helps to keep the legs together .

Trying to keep the legs the same length would introduce too much tension . Relaxation of the legs in powder assists greatly in keeping balance and feeling the point where the skis bottom out or begin to de-camber . Otherwise you would have to jump the skis up and out , missing the whole point ( and the fun)

If you look at the big boys , Nobis , Des Lauriers et al , you can see a distinct bycicling effect at transition .
J.C.
skinut ,among other things
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Postby jclayton » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:43 am

I wouldn't call it a luv bug , not much room for that sort of thing .
J.C.
skinut ,among other things
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Postby -- SCSA » Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:52 am

:arrow: I dunno, I'm pretty flexible... 8) I just relax, flex... :wink:
-- SCSA
 

Postby Robert » Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:01 pm

Congratulations SCSA, you have an Audi TT. Nice car!
Robert
 

Postby -- SCSA » Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:50 pm

Thanks Robert. It's great. I mean, what a friggin car. I wish I could give one to everyone. :!:
-- SCSA
 

Postby RobertC » Thu Apr 01, 2004 9:25 am

I tried my first deepish (2 foot) powder last week in France. I had made great progress with self-taught phantom turns on piste, but I was completely lost in the powder.
Friends who make all their turns with a pole plant and an up motion seemed to be able to cope much better.
Is this typical of PMTS learners starting in powder?
It's like I am starting all over again.
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I haven't either

Postby John Mason » Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:24 pm

My first powder day - and only one so far, was a deep 25 inches or so of freashies at Beaver Creek. My lift and tip super phantom was pretty useless. I realize that the weighted release would be the appropriate one.

If you want, check out Holiday's and Eski's posts on epicski as they both use PMTS for all mountain powder skiing and have had discussions about this over on epic. Eski, I believe , is Eric of X-clinic all mountain fame with a book out as well.

Their all-mountain book is very good and PMTS based as well.

Here is the amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books

HH also describes how to do powder in his 2nd book: Here is the amazon link to it:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books
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Postby RobertC » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:55 am

That's reassuring. I had been using the super P turn too.
I need to learn the others ...
Thanks, John
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