Upside Down - a defining moment?

[dewdman42]

John, great that is a wonderful point you bring up, we may have come to the root of confusion and why there is some missing performance for you. The stationary static counter movements I am showing should happen before you feel the downward side movement to the skis, with the upper body. If you aren?t getting the actual static counter balance before the downward part, you are losing capability for angles that could later develop in the arc. You will lose a large part of the turn?s potential or at least a high level expert carving turn capability.

This is a very important point for me to work on this winter. Thanks for that comment Harald.

[Harald]

I must bare some of the responsibility for not making it clearer that this counter balancing (CB) thing needs to happen before you get to the other side of the skis. PSIA does the opposite, they say push (extend) outside leg extension to move your body. In that move there is no CB. We say the opposite , flex the leg, CB, then come across with everything prepared to balance.

With CB before the arc you can commit much farther to the inside of the new arc. Without CB you end up on the inside ski or on your hip, if you have a narrow stance. Why do you think PSIA advocates a wide stance, so they can catch their lost balance on the inside leg, because that's where they are pushing it.

[Harald]

http://www.harbskisystems.com/hhsite/basesuphh.htm

Notice how CB is established before skis change direction. The skis have changed edges, but the skis are headed in the same direction. This is what the dryland exercises are directing you to.

I'm not saying you will make this turn the first time out, but you will be much closer.


Look for the CB at the release and CB in high C, big change of lateral upper body location.

[John Mason]

This early counter balance is the main thing we worked on in June. (though I was not in your group) Without it there is nothing to make the skis hook up for the next turn other than inclination of the body coming over which is not enough.

It's the first thing I'll continue to work on this season as I start up again.

We also worked on early counter to increase edging at this point of the turn (the transition). Can you explain how early counter helps in this whole process in addition to counter balance? I've came out of the June camp thinking both are needed to get the skis to edge and start turning as you come through transition.

(I really like that diagram btw. That shows clearly the whole concept of upside down. The edges change before the turn actual develops)

[Bob]

Harald

The diagram box is extremely helpful to those of us who learn better from visual cues.

Could you make one up using a line to represent our shoulders and strong arm and their correct position with regards to "Counter" through out the turn??

This would be very helpful to me.

Thanks, Bob

[fisherskionsnow]

great article on upside down. I'm having trouble with the upside down movement in my transition from my old edges to the new edges. I have a tendency to lose my balance to the inside of the new turn. It appears that I may not be counter balancing properly. Probably not early enough in the new turn and not enough CB. I also have a tendency to occasionally catch an edge as I attempt the upside down movement. Any suggestions?

[Max_501]

For those of you that are having trouble with getting upside down you need to ask yourself if you have built the foundation to support being upside down. Be honest with yourself. Expert Skier 2 is full of Performance Checks. Can you pass them all?

Do you flex to release (are you sure)?
Do you come completely flat between turns?
Do you pull your free foot back and hold it back?
Do you tip your free foot and keep on tipping it?
Do you flex your inside leg?
Do you counter balance?
Do you use counting acting movements?

[Harald]

Fisherski, You have it almost right, you do need more counter balance for sure and if you?re catching a little toe edge, you are putting too much weight on that foot, so lighten the inside ski by flexing the inside leg in the transition, then tip it over to the new little toe side and repeat everything that Max posted.


Weight on the little toe edge that catches is a sure sign of not aggressive enough flexing or full back and not enough counter balance. Simply stated, it means you are falling, rather then balancing.

[Harald]

Bob, you will get your wish, as there are numerous pics in the new book just like that. I'll see if I can clip some.

[dewdman42]

Simply stated, it means you are falling, rather then balancing.

Excellent!!

[richk]

In my new book, I spell out each step, and demonstrate how that high C, upside down position can be learned and practiced from a static or stationary position, indoors on dry land and then on snow.

Harald, as part of our pre-skiing training could you elaborate on this a bit more?

How much tilt should one start with? Is it all done with counter-balancing?

[Harald]

Rich, yes to all. I begin on a flat carpeted surface as it is less slippery. Watch your image in a mirror as you change edges and co-ordinate your upper body movements with proper timing to match boot edge changes. Once you feel confident with balancing,and can move edge to edge without tremendous body adjustment, tip you platofrm to an angle.

Now practice your edge changes and continue to raise the angle of the platform. When you get on snow practice this same progression stationary. Then practice it moving by tipping tipping side to side decending in the falline.

Trust is the key issue, as destruction of balance is a confidence movement. You build trust with positive experience and practice. As you well know perfect movements can still be interfered with by lack of commitment.

BTW, yesterday I went through about twenty-five of our 90min videos. Some nice transitions performed by RK were noticeable.

[Icanski]

I don't know if this will refresh to 2006...we'll see.
This is an excellent set of pictures, and it's interesting to see your legs so clearly without baggy ski pants on.
Is this the normal width/spce between your legs/feet when you're skiing? It always looks closer when I've seen you on snow. I'm asking about the horizontal separation, as I know there is lots of vertical separation, as seen in your avatar photos.
regards,
John

[Icanski]

HH, to clarify, the last post I put in was in regard to the pictures from an earlier version of this thread. You are standing on a sloped board in your ski boots and shorts so we can clearly see your knees. I was asking if your legs are normaly at about hip width. they look closer on the snow, but you've also got puffy ski pants on. Perhaps someone can put those pictures back on this thread as they show clearly your counterbalancing movements on the slanted board. I think they were from 2005.
thanks,
John

[codyblank]

Can you use the Phantom Move in racing and be a sucessful racer?