PMTS - test your knowledge

[Ken]

Once the outside leg extension is completed they are in trouble, they do have the ski on edge and the skis are holding, but the extension caused the problem. They get over extended so the ski is railing on the edges, rather then staying balanced and pressuring the outside ski, their skis are railing and runnnig away.

Balance is not over the stance ski, it is inside the turn on the inside ski, which is aggravated by the wide stance they so love. They use the wide stance because they have to have it. I agree with a wide stance if you ski like a PSIA guy trying to carve, because you need it to hold yourself up.

Important evaluation. So that's why they insist on the wide stance...it isn't optional for them.


Ken

[Max_501]

What are the benefits of pulling and holding the free foot back?

Another benefit. If the free foot is too far forward it reduces the ability to tip and flex.

[Icanski]

Also, if you have to transfer balance suddenly, like a slip on ice of the stance leg, or in bumps, if the free foot is back, you can balance on it and continue; whereas if it's ahead "tip lead" then you will be in the back seat and the ski is out in front of you. And you'll likely go down, or be struggling.
Icanski

[Theophanis]

Also, if you have to transfer balance suddenly, like a slip on ice of the stance leg, or in bumps, if the free foot is back, you can balance on it and continue; whereas if it's ahead "tip lead" then you will be in the back seat and the ski is out in front of you. And you'll likely go down, or be struggling.
Icanski

Precisly ! Have avoid some falls due to my ability to balance on the little toe edge of my inside ski. And keeping the free foot back helps a lot to that balance.

[Harald]

Hello Theophanis, great to hear from you again.

[Harald]

Important evaluation. So that's why they insist on the wide stance...it isn't optional for them.

Ken, if you investigate the TTS methods and their origin you will find many such make up positions and movements (wide stance, weight both skis, steer the skis, leg rotation) to band aid a ridiculously out dated, inefficient way to learn skiing and way to ski. The pundits of the TTS systems are caught, they have to worm their way out of so many traps, they created, they have become artists of deception and word-smithing.

How can anyone in their right mind still want to steer their legs so that the skis turn to an edge? Most skiers are doing this anyway and that?s why they are stuck with bad skiing. Why teach, reinforce something that is already ruining someone?s skiing . Tell me PSIA instructors can?t see that on he slopes, please.

The only way to defend the instructors in the PSIA system is to say that the system is so broken that they just go through the motions of certification and don?t investigate what they are teaching . The requirements for PSIA certification is ninety nine percent of their teaching content and that's what PSIA instructors end up teaching. Their educational system is not up with the on snow product.

All I can say is that it?s a great feeder program for PMTS. I love the guys who argue for the PSIA system that includes steering, leg rotation etc. I hope they never stop. They fail to see that anyone who finds PMTS never looks back. I think that?s what they call the ?customer is trying to tell you something?.

The PSIA system is all about the system, the hierarchy and organization, not the skier. Of course you can?t tell them that, as their myopic view of skiing doesn?t allow them to see the big picture.

[Harald]

The PSIA, that organization is a corporation, like most of America today, it?s goal is to make money, sell underwear to ski instructors and collect dues. If you keep that in mind, you will see the PSIA instructor is disenfranchised, they are the suckers.

They largely produce the profit for the PSIA Corp. They pay the dues, they pay for clinics, they pay to get certified, they have to buy the manuals, the ski schools pay a franchise fee on and on. Hey, I?m not saying it?s a bad business plan. I think they have a great business plan. They have all these people out their making money for them.

Ask yourself, what is the benefit to the instructor? Don?t tell me ski instruction can support a family or buy a house. Most ski instructors today have other jobs, many retired folks are teaching skiing at the major areas. This is a common trend, retire early, move to the mountains, start as a mountain host, try out for ski school, become a ski instructor. Low pay, no benefits, no commitment, now if they could only figure out how to out source ski instruction to China, they?d have it made.

[Theophanis]

Hello Theophanis, great to hear from you again.

Hello Harald , nice to be here. How is going with fishing ?
Regards to Diana

P.S. Sorry guys for the out of topic msg.

[Mac]

Let's see, retire early, move to the mountains, and basically live your childhood dream of being a ski bum. Doesn't sound all that bad to me! Actually, I know of some people that do just that, that are either mountain ambassadors or instuctors. But most of them are either retired doctors or other professional people that have skied all their lives, that don't have any young kids or a mortgage to pay, have money in the bank, and are not relying on the mountain for their sole source of income. I'm sure the mountain loves this, they don't have to make any commitment to these people, and visa versa. It's an arrangement that works for both sides. However, on the other side of the spectrum, most of the instuctors that I know all have other seasonal jobs that are their main source of income, they're out there teaching because that's what they want to do, they're sure not in it for the money.

[Mac]

Say Harald, is it a requirement to be a member of PSIA in order to work at a ski school? Does that depend on each individual mountain? Are the potenial earnings better if you are a member, akin to belonging to a labor union? Are you looked down upon for not being a member, are you brow beaten into joining, etc? I know that in certain situations, like around the holidays, a particular mountain that I frequent will take people that hold other positions, re snowmakers and maintainance workers, and have them fill in as instructors when the mountain is really busy, but that is only a temporary situation. I was just wondering that if you want a full time job as a ski instuctor whether being a card carrying member was manditory. It seems to me from the drift I get over on Epic is that instructors that don't belong are not looked upon very favorably.

[dewdman42]

Its not a requirement to have any certification at many mountains, but it helps a lot.

I just want to say my rant... This trend about retire and semi-retired folks working as ski instructors is absolutely true. Actually, there are two ends of the spectrum. There are young kids or perhaps college age kids doing it...and then the retired people. The in between people simply can't afford to be a dedicated full time ski instructor because its not economically feasible for them. Anyone in their late 20's on up is trying to build some financial security. There is no career for most of us in the ski instruction business. A few individuals manage to squeak through somehow..but not many.

The downside of all this is that with the exception of a few lucky individuals, in my opinion some of the best people that could develop into top notch instructors and coaches simply can't do it for financial reasons. By the time they start to be any good, they have to move on to other careers that will pay a mortgage and spend more time with their family. Many of the retired folks we're talking about here are well intentioned, friendly people with a great love of skiing, but IMHO are not ideal candidates for developing into top notch ski instructors or coaches.

Its sad that is has come to this, but at the same time, there is not much that can be done about it or anyone to blame. This has more to do with economics in our country than anything else. If ski instructors were paid anything that reprsented even close to a modest career, ski lessons would cost a LOT more than they do now.....or else the mountains would have to give up that revenue stream and let the instructors as individuals get it all. Here in seattle there are a number of Concession schools. They only charge a few hundred bucks per student for an 8 week multi-week lesson. Figure a class of 8 students...fees to the mountain for operating the concession...the instructors make diddly. They'd have to charge triple to change that..but then nobody would be able to afford ski lessons and they'd just go ski the mountain without taking any lessons at all... So there we are.

A few extraordinarily talented and experienced people such as HH and others are able to setup their own programs, operate camps, sell books, etc..and make a decent living off of it, and my hat off to you guys! Not too many people in that position though.

[Mac]

I have noticed some exceptions to that, most notably in the higher profile ski schools such as Deer Valley, Aspen, and Sun Valley. I don't know if the pay scale is better at these upscale mountains, I'm assuming that there is a higher potenial for better tips just because of the clientel that these mountains cater to. Seems like the instructors at Deer Valley are always walking around with a smile on their face. And I'm assuming that some of them came from money to begin with, because the ones I'm talking about fall into that 30-50 age bracket. I know some instructors personally, some of them have done it all their lives, and wouldn't think of doing anything else. I've never asked them how they manage to do it, I wouldn't feel right about asking personal stuff like that. But they all seem to have a good outlook on life. I think that's why a lot of these retired people head to the mountains. They have lead their whole lives chained to a desk or being tied down with responsibilities to everyone else, and they wake up one day and realize that life has passed them by. I know it really hit me when I turned 50, I started wondering about how many good years I had left, and how do I intend to use them. As Warren Miller once said, "nobody on their death bed lies there wishing they had spent more time at work".

[Harald]

There is a strange mentality that surrounds being involved In PSIA. If you are not a member, you are considered an outsider. It?s almost like the ones who paid all the dues over the years for their certification and training and have jumped through all the hoops want to maintain that everyone new should have to do the same, which is logical.
They feel like they were used, so why shouldn?t the new guy get the same treatment. It?s weird, they won?t consider changing that situation. The old boys wouldn?t like it if you join and don't have to go through the same hoops that they went through to be a ski instructor, even if it was for the benefit of skiing. For that reason there is no initiative from the top, to change the system, everyone has their place and they hold onto their status within PSIA.

Most ski schools require that you at least join PSIA, but you don?t have to become certified. Although as you find out quickly in a ski school, the first level or two of certification, increases your pay scale. The problem is, many ski schools these days, no longer want fully certified ski instructors, as they don?t want to pay the higher pay scales.

When I was at Winter Park we had a different philosophy, we wanted everyone to get to a higher level every year. We helped to pay for training and certification expenses if the instructor was successful. You could train in the ski school for free any day you wanted. We had some kind of training available every day of the week. In the four years I was in charge, we never had anyone fail an exam. WP went from not being on the top 20 list of ski schools to number 4th overall. My last year there we began to convert many of the trainers and instructors to PMTS. The old guard was furious, you can imagine. It?s an old boys club, once you are a trainer, you can just ride it and milk it forever. I began to change that system. Then and now, within the system, once you made it, you are never subjected to upgrades or higher standards. As long as you go to your pin polishing sessions every year, which are a joke, they just stand around and talk about how to demonstrate a better wedge Christie.

There are examiners in PSIA that are well-regarded just because they have been their forever, not because they contributed or raised the standards. Now when I look back, they had many reasons to hate me, I got my full cert and made the demo team all in the same year. I was an intruder, even though I held all the credentials of the organization. I never felt influenced by this, my motivation was to make PSIA a better instructional body. You always make enemies when you rock the boat. I?m glad I found out that there was no way it was going to change early enough, to make my escape. I had four great years at Winter Park. The Director was a forward thinking man and he let me implement what I wanted. We almost got it done, then he was let go, and WP went back to normal PSIA status.

[dewdman42]

And everything you're saying Harald just makes the situation even worse. Not only do instructor jobs not pay enough...but if you want any chance in hell of cinching up some kind of long term stability in this business..... you have to dance the PSIA dance, even if you know that much of what they are doing is flat out wrong. I mean, Let's say I get my L3 in the next year or two. Then let's say I go on to try to get examiner certification, etc.. In order to get to that level in PSIA I'm going to have to ski like a dork (to quote someone we know here) and I'm going to have TALK about skiing like a dork enthusiastically. I can get through L3 without ruining my own skiing permanently I'm sure, but to get to the higher jobs you speak of where I would have it made in the shade, I think I would have to buy into the PSIA ideal more than I really want to. Thus..its futile.

I would love to be a full time ski instructor for a living. perhaps had I gotten earlier coaching and guidance I would now be one of those lucky people that made it high enough to make a career out of it perhaps as a race coach or some other similar situation. All I can really do is try to ski as much as I can, learn as much as I can for my own skiing, and find ways to impart this on other people. There is only so much development I can do for myself as a ski instructor when I'm limited to working a 40 hr/week day job and find time on the weekends for both teaching and free skiing.

I do want to say, I have been pretty impressed with some of the "teaching" methodology to come out of PSIA folks..not ski technique, I mean people skill stuff. When I was certifying in CSIA they were pretty light on that and heavy on ski theory. I find PSIA disscussions to be very light on ski technique theory in comparison, but way more deep in terms of student/teacher interaction concepts.

[Harald]

I do want to say, I have been pretty impressed with some of the "teaching" methodology to come out of PSIA folks..not ski technique, I mean people skill stuff.

I'll suggest you will possibly see a new reason for praise when you see "Student Directed Instruction" from PMTS, if you come through PMTS Accreditation, it's a different level.