PMTS - test your knowledge

[Sidney]

I would say Yes,

From what I understand as the forces of the turn gradually build so to does counter until the point where the stance ski is fully loaded.

Is counter progressive? If so, how does it develop in the turn?

[HarveyD]

As the skis turn under you in the course of a turn, this increases counter.

[Max_501]

Can you have too much counter?

[John Mason]

you can have too much of anything

But, in most cases, like even tipping and even increasing tipping as the turn increases, I don't have enough. So in my case, no, I can't have too much tipping or too much counter. If I personally feel like I'm getting too much tipping and/or too much counter, then I might (emphasize 'might') be just barely getting enough.

But now we are getting into areas of intent and results vs what we are actually doing. And as any review of ones own video knows, that's a whole different subject.

(good thread btw) (makes me real itchy to find some snow and go someplace)

Oh, to answer the thread another way, the slower you are going, the more counter balance and counter you need to do your edge changes. Really well done railroad turns work best with lots of counter balance. As you are going faster, not as much counter balance is needed, unless you want to connect the high c part of the turn. Speed and intent and what you are trying to do will change how much counter balance mixed with counter rotation you would 'dial-in'. On a gentle blue where I'm not worried much about speed control, then very wide arc turns can be carved without much counter-rotation or counter balance. But as the terrain is steeper and the turns need to be shorter, then more and more counter balance and counter rotation are needed.

We PMTS'ers know that we are not robot skiers. PMTS gives us a toolset to mix with intent. None of us would ski in all situations with the same degree of counter and counter rotation. It's very dynamic skiing.

[Max_501]

If you have too much counter rotation (also called counter acting) what happens?

[HarveyD]

To much counter action will block femoral rotation. On page 94 of Expert 2, HH says that this rotation is necessary to fully develop edges. You can demonstrate this effect while standing still on dry land.

[Max_501]

Using a clock for reference points:

12 - Uphill
6 - Downhill

At what point should the stance leg be fully extended?

[midwif]

Depending on right or left turn, full extension would be at 9 or3 o'clock.
This is my best guess.

[Max_501]

Using the clock as reference, at what point do you begin to flex?

[midwif]

4/8.

[Max_501]

4/8.

That might be a bit early. When I was working with HH he had me shooting for a range from 4:30 to 5:30 (turn to the right).

[midwif]

Gotta be honest, while I might theoretically be able to guess the correct actions based on PMTS, I cannot actually perform anywhere close to what they should be(yet).

[Harald]

It is very hard to define or nail down an absolute in this relationship. If you are skiing at forty miles per hour and crank a shape turn, momentum will hold you up and you can fully extend at 2 o?clock. But if you don?t carry momentum with the transition, you may have to wait until you are fully against the falline, which is 5 o?clock.

Max is now able to extend at about 3 to 3:30 on moderate terrain.

[Max_501]

It is very hard to define or nail down an absolute in this relationship. If you are skiing at forty miles per hour and crank a shape turn, momentum will hold you up and you can fully extend at 2 o?clock. But if you don?t carry momentum with the transition, you may have to wait until you are fully against the falline, which is 5 o?clock.

Hmm...that lends itself to another question.

How does momentum affect the skiers ability to extend?

[Harald]

Sometimes we try to resist or control loads from forces in an arc, yet we don't really show the leg getting longer or extening, but we try and are trying to extend like hell. This type of extension is hard to see in comparison photos. You have to analize the situation, where the skier is in the turn and how balance is set up relative to arc completion and desired radius closing. Many skiers can extend, get good angles but can't close the arc radius, this is a high level of skiing, that challenges the upper limits of ski instruction.