Lance Armstrong wins (sorry update: loses) case on doping!

[skifastDDS]

Here's an interesting list....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... s_in_sport

The most interesting part of reading that was seeing how many people were banned for use of cannabis. I don't see how weed could possibly be performance-enhancing in any way, ridiculous.

[Bonz]

I didn't know Lance had a PHD.

Yep. In pharmacy.

[h.harb]

BTW "Like" on the previous post.

Lively discussions on my Facebook page about Lance and the doping scene. Here is a post I put up there.

Lance was a great story, now he's a footnote in history, he''ll go down like Bonds, McGuire and Sosa, all cheaters. I was lied to personally right to my face, by Tyler Hamilton, Tyler and his family who I knew well since he was 10 years old. I was there when he first discovered he was special on a bike, he was 14. What did all this get for these guys in retrospect? A few years of fame money and adulation. But they are suffering for the rest of their lives because of what they did. Will they be forgiven? The US public has amazingly short memories when it comes to illegal and bad behavior by celebrities. We will just have to wait and see how this plays out. My Lance Armstrong faith and support are gone. I knew he was a jerk after reading his book. He's proud of being a jerk, he does need some humility, don't be surprised if he becomes "born again" it worked for George Bush.

I never thought Tyler would do what he did, I was wrong in defending him, he pulled his whole family into it, wittingly or not, they are accomplices. What really fried him for me was when he began trying to raise money under false pretenses, this is a crime, not a doping crime, it's fraud. I won't go near his book or any book Lance tries to put out about his life after this. Actually I burned his first book, I had here.

On a different note, I like Facebook, because it's honest, no hiding behind some weird false names. You are what you are and what you 'brung", on Facebook, and you can't hide your persona. It's open, transparent and checkable. I know some people don't like that, but to me it's reassuring. We have had real jerks here under assumed names, and they wasted a lot of effort and time, like L-Bloom, TDK, Highway star and dewdman to name just a few posers.

Put up video, like Geoffda says, no hiding behind bad skiing, not in this group. And it's no problem to be a bad skier, there is nothing wrong with it, but don't be a bad skier and argue the finer points of ski technique with people who know better..

[semnoz]

The riders should definitely be held responsible and pay the consequences for their actions, but I would not place the entire blame on them, they are part of a system that condones (and even encourages) doping. The viewing public is also somewhat schizophrenic, wanting the riders to be both the most perfect and purest of human beings (read "heroes") and yet also demands that they ride faster and faster everyday, and do things that are just not humanly possible (this applies to baseball, football, etc., as well).

I agree with not buying Tyler's book or any other book published on the subject, they shouldn't be able to make any money from their own or from Lance's cheating.

[A.L.E]

One of my son's friends was responsible for this. It's gone viral.



http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-20/entertainment/sns-rt-us-cycling-armstrong-librarybre90k03h-20130120_1_fiction-section-national-library-prank

[jclayton]

He He , good bit of aussie humor .

Seriously though , do any winners of big tour events not take any drugs ? I read an arcticle by a Dutch rider a few years ago who was often in the middle of the field who claimed he was one of the two or three who didn't . He said for this reason he will never win though he did make a living for a while . He maintained it was impossible to win without drugs at that level .
I don't know about the voracity of this but seems a logical conclusion .

[CO_Steve]

I have a friend who was a pro runner back in the 90s. He has told me many times if you didn't dope you had no chance. He got out.

[h.harb]

Steve and JClayton your avatars are almost identical, are you brothers or do you have the same instructors?

I put this up on my Facebook.

[CO_Steve]

I noticed that too. My golf swing looks more like Tiger's

[jbotti]

He He , good bit of aussie humor .

Seriously though , do any winners of big tour events not take any drugs ? I read an arcticle by a Dutch rider a few years ago who was often in the middle of the field who claimed he was one of the two or three who didn't . He said for this reason he will never win though he did make a living for a while . He maintained it was impossible to win without drugs at that level .
I don't know about the voracity of this but seems a logical conclusion .

Hate to be the total cynic here, but unfortuanteky it's not just cycling. I think you can take almost all olympic sports where it's pure atletic ability that wins (less about technique and skill/ think track and field and swimming) and it's hard not to make the case that everyone at the top is doping.

[cheesehead]

Personally, I would REALLY love to know how many NFLers are on HGH (human growth hormone). Apparently, they are afraid to test because they feel that giving a couple of cc's of blood would be SO traumatic. These guys are so much huger than they were 10 years ago. Evolution does not happen that fast.

[NoCleverName]

Aside from the steroids (which actually do change your body) most "PED's" enhance your ability to train and therefore, indirectly, your ability to perform. These same drugs are also legally available to you and me to enable us to recover more quickly from injury ... not a bad thing at all. If an athlete can recover from vigorous training more quickly, then they can train vigorously more often and thus reach and maintain far better fitness in and between events. Lance was known as an incredible horse at training. Combined with the fact he was a freak-of-nature anyway, on any given day (even without PED's) he could toast the competition ... it's just with the PED's he could do it consistently. Even today the guy is a formidable competitor. So a "cheat" ... I'm ambivalent, since If memory serves me all the guys who came in 2nd at the TdF eventually got busted, too.

From the fan's standpoint, PED's that don't unnaturally enhance the body are a good thing. After all, sports is merely entertainment and as a fan, you just want your money's worth and want a good show. Nothing like an athlete consistently performing at a high level to put on a good show. And, cynically, if you were a bettor, it's good to be able to count on performance. Wouldn't want to lose money on the vagaries of injury or tiredness, would we?

On the other hand, these things have a way of trickling down to young people where the possibilities of destructive use are likely.

I suspect in the long run many of these "PED's" will be acceptable .. more or less like various electronic assists come and go in F1 racing.

[arothafel]

Well... in professional body-building, there are two divisions -- one of which is called "Natural" (lots of testing) and the other is left ambiguous (no testing)... which means it's all the "juice heads" going at it and turning themselves into muscular "freaks!"



So, why not have an "Unlimited" class for athletes. Just like the Top Fuel Unlimited Dragsters. Just create a division for those athletes who prefer to use drugs... and a different division for those who don't. Let the juicers go crazy with PEDs. Talk about entertainment value...!

We'd see 150 mph fastballs. - Field goals from 85 yards. - Basketball would turn into an MMA bloodsport. And, guys like Lance could burn rubber!

[jbotti]

Combined with the fact he was a freak-of-nature anyway, on any given day (even without PED's) .

If you read a lot in the books about Lance his was actually not a freak of nature. His V02max was actually marginal especailly for a pro cyclist. All the evidence points to an athlete that repsonded well to PED's and most likley would not have been a dominant competitor wothout them.

I do agree that everyone in the top 10 in all his victories was doping. I guess you can say that it was an even playing field. Clearly this does not account for the talented cyclists that couldn't keep up with the dopers who may have been at the front of the pack in a clean race. It is well documented what happens to clean cyclists that try to compete with a doped up peloton. The burn out in 1-2 seasons and are nevver herad from again. The body just can't be pushed that hard without reinforcements.

[ChuckT]

We'd see 150 mph fastballs. - Field goals from 85 yards. - Basketball would turn into an MMA bloodsport. And, guys like Lance could burn rubber!

Which would be highly entertaining. But instead of inspiring us about human endeavors and achievements, they would just make us wonder about the power of modern pharmaceuticals and the willingness of some to sacrifice their health to entertain others.

My view is that any drug, any dose that doesn't have a negative impact, short term or long term, on the athlete's health should not be banned. Anything non-competitors would take to enhance their health and life should be OK. I guess all the stuffs on the banned list are bad for long term health?

Regardless, a banned substance is a banned substance. Surreptitiously using it is cheating, pure and simple in my view.