DD, the discussion of your skiing has turned into a dart board full of suggestions shooting from all directions. This commonly happens when the SHIM is not established. SHIM is the single most important movement that will make the biggest difference.
If I were your coach, I would begin with your equipment set up as no amount of coaching or technique will change the mechanics if the alignment and boot set up is not perfect.
The person who coaches should be the person understanding your alignment and biomechanical needs. If they are different, complete solutions are not found. How can the alignment technician know what your movements are? How can they formulate the final details, based on how your body works from skiing MA? From the coaching side, how does your coach know what maybe holding your movements from developing, based on your alignment needs?
We see this often in the alignment, footbed and coaching relationship. At Harb Ski Systems we have developed the complete system. We are all coaches and we develop a close relationship with many of the best ski race programs in the country. I have the coaches bring in video. We sit down and discuss the athlete's skiing.
I show and train the coaches, who are interested, how the equipment and the body work together. I am interested in having the coaches develop alignment knowledge, so they can be more effective on the slopes. I also show them how they can begin to detect and make changes while the skiers are training. I can?t do that part, as I am not with the athletes everyday. A coach can make small easy changes in the equipment, evaluate and watch the athlete everyday.
If I were still running race programs, every athlete in my program would have a perfect set up. If I know and the athlete knows they have a perfect set up, confidence is established and work can go on without any question about anything but proper movements and tactics.
? My suspicion about your footbed is bearing out. With your post of the footbed images, I was able to see a number of things that could be altered for better results. There is no accommodation for your foot in your present footbed construction. Your calcaneus (heel bone) is everted and there is no hind foot support built into the footbed. You possibly have forefoot support needs, judging by the navicular eversion and the difference shown in ski and knee angles at different parts of the turn.
? Ski boot: The Doberman is a very good race boot, but very stiff and the medial wall of the boot intrudes into the arch area. It is a common problem with many racers, as their ankles (at the medial ankle side) are wider then the boot space. We began the process of punching out the medial wall of the boot years ago, with great results.
? In your case DD, with your foot, the medial wall is blocking the articulation of the ankle, which then causes the knee to become the dominant ski angle driver. The knee should not be the point at which the ski angle adjustments are made. Internal knee movements (often confused with edging) originate from and are controlled by the adductor muscles, which have poor fine tuning ability.
You have limited adjustment capability with your foot due to the footbed and ski boot combo.
? Hip Countering is missing in your skiing. Because you are too square (Hips facing the ski tips) to the skis, you have to hold the forces with your leg muscles, which is limiting. This causes you to let the hips drop back in the turn. Once you are at the bottom and you are also bottomed out (low hips) the only way out of the turn is an up, extension or push off move. It is for this reason you get (it is also caused by alignment) such a difference from one ski and knee angle to the other.
Equipment Solutions: get a footbed that will strengthen balance for your whole foot in the boot. Modify the boot so there is room on the medial side, so you can move the ankle toward the boot wall.
Check knee alignment after this is complete.
This can be done in the east by Joe or Glenn; they work with the Waterville race program and are the best in the east. North East Ski Systems, Joe often posts here.
Technique, movement coaching:
First: Once the alignment is done, movements can be addressed. I would begin with exercises that teach bending and flexing to release the stance ski. I would also teach foot and ankle skills to develop tipping movements that begin at the base of the kinetic chain.
Second: I would teach co-ordination of the upper body with counter acting and counter balancing movements to support the actions of the feet and ankles.
DD, this may all sound like an overwhelming process, but it's not, I do this all the time and we get amazing the results. We get results we are looking for and what the coaches are looking for. I can't tell you how often we get feedback from the coaches about improvements we have facilitated for their athletes. These are born out by the FIS point improvements.
I had two women this season in the Summit team that dropped their point into the thirties after languishing around the sixties and seventies for a season. I have parents tell me I save them money because after their kids get aligned, their results improve to the point where they get sponsored by the ski companies.
My new book will explain in detail and demonstrate through photos and exercises the techniques we use to accomplish a technique make over, parts of which I am suggesting here.
For more information about alignment and correct footbeds, check with the Real Skiers web site, there are complete photos descriptions and explanations. Also my web site has information about alignment etc.
MA Request (video)
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by Harald » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:07 pm
http://www.harbskisystems.com/hhsite/Sh ... 20copy.jpg
Here are some images that you might refer to for the idea of counter movements and counter balance. This is a high speed slalom turn on steep hard snow.
By the way, thanks Violao for the video images. How do you formate the images to paste the frames in the posting box?
Here are some images that you might refer to for the idea of counter movements and counter balance. This is a high speed slalom turn on steep hard snow.
By the way, thanks Violao for the video images. How do you formate the images to paste the frames in the posting box?
"Maximum Skiing information, Minimum BS
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by Harald » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:52 pm
Here's a standard release. This is not an example of my prefered release, but on these conditions it works to hold speed, not to gain speed. The gain speed version will be in the new book.
http://www.harbskisystems.com/hhsite/image002.jpg
http://www.harbskisystems.com/hhsite/image002.jpg
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by dewdman42 » Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:35 pm
Thanks a lot Harald. This clears up one question which I was getting ready to ask today..which is about free ski tip lead. I know we're supposed to be pulling that foot back, but I was also wondering if it still ends up leading, particular towards the end of the turn. It seems like this is really neccessary to keep the countered stance, especially just before the release when all the G forces are built up the most.
I am definitely finding myself quite "tight" in the stance leg hip when I am countering, especially at that part of the turn and I think it might be due to the fact that I'm not allowing my inside tip to lead (Unfortunately that was taboo in CSIA III stuff I did a few years ago) by in effect almost pushing the stance leg forward to avoid it falling behind or something. This was a big no no in CSIA level III certification week at whistler a few years ago.....allowing the outside ski to fall behind was considered very bad. let's not get on a tangent about them again..I know they're wrong about a few things.
In any case, what I see in this photo is that the stance foot does fall behind a little bit...which is ok as long as you're still balanced on it. In fact, behind may be better since it keeps your hip from falling behind that foot. But more importantly I think it provides you much more comfortable position to keep that countered stance. The 3rd freeze frame in this photo is the one I'm focusing on for what I just said. it looks like you're also jsut barely starting to release there too...so not sure how that effects what I just said.
Those first 2-3 frames are the weakest part of my turn right now. I am actually pretty good at initiating turns, getting upside down...and I'm even starting to do phantom moves at that time (well at least I think I am
..but where my turns fall apart is the last little bit before the release where my body just feels all wound up and difficult to hold a countered stance. When I lose the countered stance I literally feel the edges lose their grip (and a jolt of adrenaline as I lose my balance on the stance foot too I might add).
I'm also wondering if any of this tightness in my body has anything to do with the fact that I walk a little bit toe out and literally my foot "feels" pigeon toed when it is fact pointing straight forward. I'm going to be working with some physio guys on that aspect..but anyway, my main question now is about the inside ski tip lead. PSIA, USSA and some others seem to indicate that a little ski tip lead is in fact desireable.
I am definitely finding myself quite "tight" in the stance leg hip when I am countering, especially at that part of the turn and I think it might be due to the fact that I'm not allowing my inside tip to lead (Unfortunately that was taboo in CSIA III stuff I did a few years ago) by in effect almost pushing the stance leg forward to avoid it falling behind or something. This was a big no no in CSIA level III certification week at whistler a few years ago.....allowing the outside ski to fall behind was considered very bad. let's not get on a tangent about them again..I know they're wrong about a few things.
In any case, what I see in this photo is that the stance foot does fall behind a little bit...which is ok as long as you're still balanced on it. In fact, behind may be better since it keeps your hip from falling behind that foot. But more importantly I think it provides you much more comfortable position to keep that countered stance. The 3rd freeze frame in this photo is the one I'm focusing on for what I just said. it looks like you're also jsut barely starting to release there too...so not sure how that effects what I just said.
Those first 2-3 frames are the weakest part of my turn right now. I am actually pretty good at initiating turns, getting upside down...and I'm even starting to do phantom moves at that time (well at least I think I am
..but where my turns fall apart is the last little bit before the release where my body just feels all wound up and difficult to hold a countered stance. When I lose the countered stance I literally feel the edges lose their grip (and a jolt of adrenaline as I lose my balance on the stance foot too I might add).
I'm also wondering if any of this tightness in my body has anything to do with the fact that I walk a little bit toe out and literally my foot "feels" pigeon toed when it is fact pointing straight forward. I'm going to be working with some physio guys on that aspect..but anyway, my main question now is about the inside ski tip lead. PSIA, USSA and some others seem to indicate that a little ski tip lead is in fact desireable.
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by Harald » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:56 pm
I?m not focused so much on the tip lead thing unless it is the cause of balance disruption or when it blocks movements. If you focus more on the inside foot and what its roll should be, the tip lead thing will take care of itself.
Holding the inside boot and foot back and lined up with the stance boot will assure the CG moves with the skis. Foot pull and hold back is the movement that brings the CG into fore/aft balance and keeps it there. Keep the inside foot back early and hold it back and your CG will stay over the boots into the new turn and keep the hips in a strong skeletal position over the boots through the turn.
If you look at the photos I posted, realize they are stretched further then where they actually occur. The frames if properly placed for their time lapse would be on top of each other. The frames that demonstrate some tip lead are two, in the transition. If this were in normal motion you would be pressed to see or notice tip lead, it would be so fast.
Since tip lead at this point doesn?t affect the previous turn or the entry to the new turn it is not my focus. Look at the number of photos that have minimal lead and you will see that this is the predominant position of the skis and boots. If the tip lead were at the entry to the turn you would see low hips. If the tip lead were at the bottom of the turn, where the forces are strongest, you would see a back seat position.
Photos always make steeps and speed less obvious and the turns less dynamic. This is a high energy short radius turn on a steep, icy slope. When you look at how the skeleton is lined up with the forces and how the skis are performing, you see engaged edges, energy transfer and speed.
I do movement analysis based on the fundamentals of the turns and what the outcome of the turn is. I try not to focus on those kinds of details, especially if they are not influencing the quality of the turn. If the details begin to affect quality, then it is time to do something about them.
Holding the inside boot and foot back and lined up with the stance boot will assure the CG moves with the skis. Foot pull and hold back is the movement that brings the CG into fore/aft balance and keeps it there. Keep the inside foot back early and hold it back and your CG will stay over the boots into the new turn and keep the hips in a strong skeletal position over the boots through the turn.
If you look at the photos I posted, realize they are stretched further then where they actually occur. The frames if properly placed for their time lapse would be on top of each other. The frames that demonstrate some tip lead are two, in the transition. If this were in normal motion you would be pressed to see or notice tip lead, it would be so fast.
Since tip lead at this point doesn?t affect the previous turn or the entry to the new turn it is not my focus. Look at the number of photos that have minimal lead and you will see that this is the predominant position of the skis and boots. If the tip lead were at the entry to the turn you would see low hips. If the tip lead were at the bottom of the turn, where the forces are strongest, you would see a back seat position.
Photos always make steeps and speed less obvious and the turns less dynamic. This is a high energy short radius turn on a steep, icy slope. When you look at how the skeleton is lined up with the forces and how the skis are performing, you see engaged edges, energy transfer and speed.
I do movement analysis based on the fundamentals of the turns and what the outcome of the turn is. I try not to focus on those kinds of details, especially if they are not influencing the quality of the turn. If the details begin to affect quality, then it is time to do something about them.
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by dewdman42 » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:02 pm
Actually, further to what you just said...if I am pulling the free foot back better..will this help to stack my skeleton better? Now I'm wondering if the wound up feeling I'm getting..or tightness is from me not being stacked up right sometimes...and thusly...taking too much of the G forces in my thighs. Its definitely true that when I start the top half of the turn correctly, by the time I get to the bottom half of the turn I'm thinking whoa mamma..this is a lot more G force than I'm used to. Well sometimes. Sometimes it seems fine and sometimes it just feels like my legs are gonna give out..So perhaps pulling back that free foot better will help me stay forward with the bones stacked up better to take those forces.. Am I getting warmer?
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by Harald » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:47 pm
Many skiers I talk to on the phone or communicate with by e-mail and get a chance to ski with later, thought that pulling the foot back meant pulling the leg back, funny how specific you have to be in skiing. When I see them ski, they are trying to pull the leg back, which rotates the hip in the wrong direction. Pulling the foot back means exactly what it says, just the boot and foot, under the knee.
Counter acting movements are a highly neglected area of skiing technique. Counter rotation got a bad name from PSIA long ago and the sigma has stuck. This is bad for instructors and would be expert skiers, as counteracting movements are essential to expert skiing and good racing.
Look at my photo series again and check the countered hip. Analyze where the counter begins in the turn and then when it changes for the next turn. Your sore quads will disappear when you apply counter acting movements. You will also be able to deal with any forces in the turn. When you feel the forces are becoming too great, tip the boot over farther and let your countered hip drop into the turn farther. Look at any of the photos of the World Cup. The hip is countered and low to the inside of the turn, not just a little.
Counter acting movements are a highly neglected area of skiing technique. Counter rotation got a bad name from PSIA long ago and the sigma has stuck. This is bad for instructors and would be expert skiers, as counteracting movements are essential to expert skiing and good racing.
Look at my photo series again and check the countered hip. Analyze where the counter begins in the turn and then when it changes for the next turn. Your sore quads will disappear when you apply counter acting movements. You will also be able to deal with any forces in the turn. When you feel the forces are becoming too great, tip the boot over farther and let your countered hip drop into the turn farther. Look at any of the photos of the World Cup. The hip is countered and low to the inside of the turn, not just a little.
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by Harald » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:57 pm
By the way, the coming square thing that PSIA promotes and the waist steering thing, will ruin anyone?s skiing. They don?t know what they are looking at, what they are seeing or what works.
When I made the US demo team, everyone on the team told me I skied like an Austrian. I wasn?t trying to ski like an Austrian; I was just trying to ski well.
What they were seeing and didn?t know, was that I was using counter. They didn?t see it because PSIA was all about coming square to the skis with the hips and none of the other team members used counter. I just replied by saying, thank-you, the Austrians are the best skiers in the world.
When I made the US demo team, everyone on the team told me I skied like an Austrian. I wasn?t trying to ski like an Austrian; I was just trying to ski well.
What they were seeing and didn?t know, was that I was using counter. They didn?t see it because PSIA was all about coming square to the skis with the hips and none of the other team members used counter. I just replied by saying, thank-you, the Austrians are the best skiers in the world.
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by dewdman42 » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:30 pm
LOL. yes they definitely are (The Austrians). I don't need any convincing about the power of counter actually...I know it works..I just need to make it happen more consistently.
I agree with you about PSIA by the way. I actually breezed through the PSIA level 1 exam yesterday. But when I mentioned the word counter he very politely informed me that we aren't supposed to use that word. He said PSIA's viewpoint is that other actions will RESULT in counter, but that counter is not something to explicitly do. I don't think I agree with that viewpoint by the way. (They were also trying to emphasize to all of us about using the inside ski tip lead more to in fact get some counter, though he was careful not to use the word counter, ha ha)...so now you know why I was asking the question originally...
Anyway, back to the point, I think the change for me with this PMTS approach has been to keep much more weight on my stance ski. There is no question that I have been riding around with too much pressure on the inside ski for a while now. Going through this PMTS process is making me realize I need to stand on that outside ski a LOT more. The more I stand on it..the better that edge grips. I was experimenting with that yesterday a lot. If I was not careful to really get my weight off the inside ski, then the outside ski did not hold too well. As soon as I practiced a few turns with the inside ski lifted and then back to skimming my outside was holding very powerfully. This difference is more pronounced with shorter skis I find also.
But the other thing that is new for me is the idea of keeping that outside leg more extended through the turn. I've had a bad habit in the past of flexing both legs starting at the fall line (CSIA dogma), which has developed all kinds of bad and wrong things in my carved skiing. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that when I hit that part of the turn and that stance leg is more extended then I am not used to it..and I'm trying to angulate and counter..I just feel really awkard. Sometimes I get it right and the skis are making beautiful round arcs that hold like glue and come all the way around, even on a slick steep run...but it still feels awkward somehow and so I'm not entirely sure I'm getting the hip dropped right or the appropriate counter movement there.
I guess some video will need to be in order one of these days when I can arrange it to really ask these questions and get your feedback. I am also going to see if I can spend a day with the PMTS guy at Hood (Jay?). Anyway, thanks again for your feedback and confidence inspiring words. I say confidence inspiring because its hard to know for sure when I'm on the right track or the wrong track with some of this stuff... When I know I'm on the right track I have lot more confidence to drop that hip inside, lay it out and get used to how it feels...
There is no question that I am experiencing some new carving sensations with this stuff..so I'm getting there.
I agree with you about PSIA by the way. I actually breezed through the PSIA level 1 exam yesterday. But when I mentioned the word counter he very politely informed me that we aren't supposed to use that word. He said PSIA's viewpoint is that other actions will RESULT in counter, but that counter is not something to explicitly do. I don't think I agree with that viewpoint by the way. (They were also trying to emphasize to all of us about using the inside ski tip lead more to in fact get some counter, though he was careful not to use the word counter, ha ha)...so now you know why I was asking the question originally...
Anyway, back to the point, I think the change for me with this PMTS approach has been to keep much more weight on my stance ski. There is no question that I have been riding around with too much pressure on the inside ski for a while now. Going through this PMTS process is making me realize I need to stand on that outside ski a LOT more. The more I stand on it..the better that edge grips. I was experimenting with that yesterday a lot. If I was not careful to really get my weight off the inside ski, then the outside ski did not hold too well. As soon as I practiced a few turns with the inside ski lifted and then back to skimming my outside was holding very powerfully. This difference is more pronounced with shorter skis I find also.
But the other thing that is new for me is the idea of keeping that outside leg more extended through the turn. I've had a bad habit in the past of flexing both legs starting at the fall line (CSIA dogma), which has developed all kinds of bad and wrong things in my carved skiing. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that when I hit that part of the turn and that stance leg is more extended then I am not used to it..and I'm trying to angulate and counter..I just feel really awkard. Sometimes I get it right and the skis are making beautiful round arcs that hold like glue and come all the way around, even on a slick steep run...but it still feels awkward somehow and so I'm not entirely sure I'm getting the hip dropped right or the appropriate counter movement there.
I guess some video will need to be in order one of these days when I can arrange it to really ask these questions and get your feedback. I am also going to see if I can spend a day with the PMTS guy at Hood (Jay?). Anyway, thanks again for your feedback and confidence inspiring words. I say confidence inspiring because its hard to know for sure when I'm on the right track or the wrong track with some of this stuff... When I know I'm on the right track I have lot more confidence to drop that hip inside, lay it out and get used to how it feels...
There is no question that I am experiencing some new carving sensations with this stuff..so I'm getting there.
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by violao » Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:03 am
Harald wrote:How do you formate the images to paste the frames in the posting box?
A little "Img" button right next to "URL" button - is that what you asked about? You need to post the image on some web host prior to that. It's the same as inserting URL link, only the board software interprets the image instead of just inserting a link.
Before that I inspected the video in VirtualDub (freeware video editor), save individual frames as images, crop them in image editor (draw lines, etc) and upload them to free image hosting site.
BTW, DD, you don't need to use MJPEG to preserve video quality. MJPEG is bandwidth wasting useless codec - it compresses every frame individually. You would get the same quality by using DivX, Xvid, any MPEG4 or WMV codec at 10 times less bitrate (filesize).
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