MA Request (video)

[doublediamond223]

First of all, a huge thanks to HH for that MA, it was unbelievable. I've read it 4 times and am still trying to digest it, since you gave me so much information.

I have some questions regarding your terminology, as I am not familiar with PMTS (or any other instruction standard for that matter). What do you mean by upside down? I would wager that you mean my upper body is countered during transition, facing down the fall line. Feel free to correct if I am wrong.

Your comment about me losing pressure after initiation is huge, and I think is my biggest problem. I have a banking problem on my right turns, and I can see what you mean about losing energy to the stance leg as a result.

As far as the boots, I had them set up by Greg Hoffmann at GMOL Vail during my recent trip. I was 3 degrees out of alignment on my right leg, something which he fixed with a sole plane. I think any problem I have is technique, rather than alignment-related, given this.

Thanks again.


(Violao- Go ahead and post the stills, I don't mind)

[Harald]

DD thanks for the gracious response. Upside down is the point where your body is downhill of the skis and the skis have not yet changed direction. There is a photo of a turn I made at MT Hood on a previous thread, I don't recall the name, but it is something like Up-side-down or High C.

I still suggest you have your alignment checked, as I believe you are athletic and would not lean away as much if your alignment were spot on. I think you could stay counter-balanced if your boots were set up right.

I would also guess that you have a rigid under foot device, rather than a working footbed. I have a question. Who is the skier on your web site, which I did access after others posted the address, skiing at Mt Hood in the orange jacket, is that you?

We do hundreds of racer alignments a year and we almost always have the racers bring video so we can not only watch their skiing, but we have to see how alignment is affecting their technique. We are the only ones, we also were the first, to evaluate alignment based on movements. Indoor static measurements are only part of the alignment process. We also do extensive on snow evaluation before and after the boot work.

[ssh]

Great insights, Harald. I got to ski with Greg, so was looking forward to the insights that others would have. Thank you for your contrubution to my learning, as well.

[John Mason]

I'll just share a little drill I did as my alignement was tweaked.

Alignment checker - see if you can traverse in either direction on the uphill ski's LTE slowly in stable balance?

is one leg easier than the other?

even if you had a 3 degree correction - until it's spot on there is still a lot of potential change in how it feels under foot

Don't know if that might give you something to play with. I had 3 different footbeds and alignment done by 2 people before it was right on. And that 2nd person did slight adjustments 3 different times till we got it dialed in. (I'll let you guess whom that might have been)

That little traverse test really lets you feel if you still got some issues. (of course both sides can also be out so no direction is favored - but you're looking for neutral easy balance in this traverse where you don't have to fight with yourself to find balance.)

One ski on the snow testing in a functional narrow stance (other leg vertical out of the hip socket) exposes issues much easier than both skis on the snow.

Was HH right on the footbed call? Are they rigid?

[doublediamond223]

Harald-

What you saw on my site was a clip from Al Hobart's video "Complete Carving Made Easy." That was Al himself skiing. I am 17 years old, for future reference.

I wouldn't describe my footbed as totally rigid, as our (Greg and my) goal was to support my arches, which have a nasty tendency to collapse dramatically, without destroying my knee alignment. I'll get a picture up tomorrow to show you.

John-

Thanks for the idea. I did do a lot of 1 ski drills while skiing with ssh and Rick. I can do that on either ski, although stable might be a little much to describe it. The instability, IMO, is more because I had never had any type of alignment done and had therefore been unable to ski effectively on one ski before, at all.

Again, I'll post a pic of my footbed tomorrow.

[Harald]

DD thanks, as I was about to comment on the up movements and step out of the uphill ski in transition, which produces a braking action on the stance ski at the point it should be releasing.

Anyway, about your footbed, if you have a tendency to pronate, it is important to adjust the heel angle and measure the forefoot varus to control extensive knee drive. The arch should not support the foot. The support should come from the heel angle and the forefoot adjustment. The arch should be left to move toward the side of the boot. We have done this for Schlopy, and many others on the US Ski Team, the results were excellent. He had a Bronze at the World Championships that year. Now he is being handled by the Nordica rep. His results have not been very impressive since.

I would like to see your footbed, from all sides and with you standing on it from behind. Can you send the files? Use my e-mail h.harb@att.net

[violao]

OK, I collected 3 things in series of 4 images. I'm trying to guess the possible causes and would like to see PMTS expert's comments if any of my remarks might be right. This is intended to help me better understand the skiing concepts and not to trash DD's skiing that I find nice and smooth BTW. If I saw from the skilift DD as he cut RR tracks below I would probably conclude that he rips. I marked some angles on photos to better show you what I refered to. Please keep in mind that because of camera perspective these angles are not accurate and can't really be measured, but I still believe they show some things.

Now, the first one is from the end of the longer video. It's in the upside-down part, BTW, but you'll easily see the same thing happening in the bottom of the previous turn and on the other instants as well:

1. The ski bases are not parallel.



Is this the result of:

stance too wide
not enough tipping of the free foot
alignment (knees track to the inside)

I would have also commented an A-frame but as I believe it is a consequence rather than a cause I think we should focus on the source.


2. The skis are also not parallel. The inside ski points to the inside of the turn. The angles are very exaggerated because of the perspective, but I think it's obvious that skis are diverging. You can also see different ski base angles here. Perhaps the problems 1&2 are somehow connected.



DD, are you doing this deliberately and if yes then why? I'm asking this because I read some threads about inside ski pointing.


3. Stance leg is flexed during the turn and it looks like it extends in a transition. This is a serios of 2 instants from the same turn. The first is from the bottom of the turn just prior to the release, the second is I think in transfer phase. It would seem from this perspective that the shin-thigh angle is even smaller in the turn (around 90 degrees). Keeping in mind that the skier's stance leg is angled at this moment we could add something to this. If we add about 30 degrees then the angle approaches the one from the 2nd frame and we have the same angle during the realease as the one from the turn.



DD, again is this deliberate and why? I'm asking this because I've seen some instructors doing a demonstration to their students where they would flex during the turn and extend in the release.

Some questions:

Is the skier only relaxing his stance foot to release but not flex the stance leg?
Is the skier pushing off his old free/new stance foot?
Does the skier rise in the transition?
Does the position of hands and shoulders in 1st frame indicate that the skier's upper body rotates to the inside of the turn (that would be opposite to counter)?

Again, are all those issues somehow connected and why? I hope you all understand that this is only for the purpose of better understanding of skiing concepts and possible differences in teaching approaches. I hope to see some expert's comments on the points I raised here.

[Harald]

Nice job of posting the images. I think this is really helpful. Can you post one or two images in the middle of the turn? I'll get back to you later as I have a tight schedule today. Most go skiing.

[violao]

Of course. From arc-y:




The last one is from the middle of the same turn from last post.

From arc2:




Note that the last image is closer to the end of the turn since in the middle of that turn the skier leaves the screen.

[doublediamond223]

As requested, footbed photos. I emailed these to you also, HH.









Edit: I re-hosted these on imageshack, since ssh alerted me that my webshots-hosted photos on epic weren't working.

[doublediamond223]

Violao-

For the first 2 points, I think the problem is that I am steering the inside foot/not edging early enough. SSH worked with me on this extensively while we skied together. As I said before, a big thing that I worked on during the trip was ridding myself of the a-frame and trying to initiate by thrusting my inside knee. At times, I may have not been doing a good job of this, at others I might have been overdoing it.

For the third point, as the other pictures show, like my avatar, I don't do that all the time. Chances are I was going over some rough or icy snow and wanted to stay flexed to better absorb the terrain, since those skis had no grip due to a lousy tune. As far as extension in the release, I think it is just crappy crossover technique, I have no cop-out

[violao]

DD, you surely answered my questions. I see that you have already had a clue about the problems you might have. Thanks for sharing it with us and help us in our never ending learning.

As I said before, a big thing that I worked on during the trip was ridding myself of the a-frame and trying to initiate by thrusting my inside knee.

I think Harald will have to say something about this knee business, so I'll just leave that to him.

[john heath]

what a great discussion.
Ott gangl, it may have appeared like paranoia, certainly it does taken out of context with the whole post. (and the history of recetn MA here, where some people have had their time wasted.). but you know how it is on here and you've written plenty about it. like you i'm all for trying stuff out and exploring different approaches. so i hope you see that i was just trying to make sure everyone got the best out of the exercise. granted, it wasn't he nicest welcome to a forum, but i was trying to pave the way for a nice technique discussion.
i hope that doesn't distract from the rest of the discussion on the guy's skiing.

[doublediamond223]

FWIW, I was just as paranoid about getting banned on sight, or nearly so. I'm glad my fears were unfounded as well.

[Ott Gangl]

Hey guys, this thread has been wonderfully civil and stuck to the point, that is how it should be. Sure, I have written many posts that weren't always complimentary to the discussions but I have not belittled anyone or resorted to calling names, I just don't do that.

My reference to paranoia was that you imidiately found some chincks in DD original message to hang a probability of trolling onto. I think people are good and honest until they prove otherwise, their agenda usually is apparent within a few posts.

And to quote 'someone' from a post above: "just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they are not after you."

....Ott