Tipping!

[jbotti]

I am an avid watcher of WC ski racing. For me its just fun. I have spent a good amount of time trying to develop an eye for what is fast, what is good technique and what is not and thanks to Harald, I have learned a ton about looking at racers boot set up to spot when issues are the set up vs technique. But one thing is hugely apparent in pretty much all high level WC racers, they tip to the LTE way beyond what the average (even PMTS) skier does regularly. Want to tighten your arcs (who doesn't) it all starts with tipping the non stance ski to much higher levels that our normal level of tipping. It also require increasing that throughout the arc, and on steep terrain, past the apex.

I recommend that everyone watch some current WC racing and notice just how early and how far the non stance ski gets tipped. When I see this, I am reminded that If I want to ski like Harald, I need tp bring this level of commitment to every arc.

When I was in Austria this past April at the HSS camp, Diana had us a doing a drill, which in reality is how we all should ski all the time. On moderate terrain we were asked to increase our tipping by 10% as we were approaching the apex of the turn. Its great of you can get some video shot while you are doing this drill, because if you do increase the tipping. its very easy to see on the video.

Once this starts to become doable, the next is to take it into some steeper terrain, and here one increases tipping into the apex, but the pronounced 10% additional comes after the apex. Want to know how WC racers control their speed on steeps and can tighten their arcs on steep terrain? This is how (or at least it starts with being able to do this as having other essentials in place is also necessary).

I have not been on snow yet. For me this is always a time when I am looking at how I want to approach my skiing in the coming season. In Austria I was in a group of all excellent PMTS skiers and everyone walked away from doing this drill work with a greater ROM for tipping and a hugely increased ability to tighten each arc. This will be one of my huge focuses when I get back on snow.

But while getting the lateral ankle bone on snow or close to being on snow (huge level of non stance ski tipping) is truly an expert move, every level of skier can increase their level of tipping and every level can increase their tipping 10% as they approach the apex of each turn. Try it. You will see a huge result!

I'll mention the WC again, because I find the visual I get is amazing and I use that in my mind as I look to tip further. Peacock has all the races from Austria. Of course youtube has a ton. Using slow mo and pause is especially helpful.

One thing never changes, we can all tip more!

[go_large_or_go_home]

Genuine question as I can’t explain it…..

Why, when you counter act the hips, does your ability to tip the stance leg diminish?

Try this exercise, stand feet hip width apart and tip both feet towards the same direction. You should notice that you can achieve a large amount of tipping range on both feet…now, depending which direction you have tipped your feet, maintain this angle and counter act your hips..take a look at the amount of tipping angle on your ‘stance/ outside’ foot….it reduces dramatically..

I recently did a non PMTS camp with a very well respected skier from within the PMTS community and asked him this question…he said that when you tip, the stance leg internally rotates…when you counter act your hips, you are increasing the amount that your stance leg femur internally rotates into its socket - very quickly, it will hit its max range…after this, your CA movement just undos your tipping…

Now, depending on your joint mechanics - hypermobile etc, this end point will vary…but for me, it didn’t take much CA to wash out my tipping (and I could feel it in my hip as a pinching sensation…)

As soon as I started to square my hips up though the turn, the amount of tipping I could achieve was off the charts..tight arcs, inside ankle joint touching the snow, high C engagement all came instantly…it didn’t matter what type of turn I was doing - for the first time, I could feel grip along the entire length of the ski from release to release on every turn…

I have seen a video of Richie Berger skiing from behind, you can see him actively driving his stance ski leg hip into the turn..

So how do you increase tipping your tipping though the turn, if you are also trying to CA your hip?

[jbotti]

My experience born out by video is that adding CA increases edge angles when added to an already tipped ski. I am not going to argue with anyone about the potential biomechanics (which again run counter to my experience). But the goal of tipping is to increase edge angles, and CA when added to tipping increases edge angles. Not sure we need more data than that. lets also remember that tipping starts and occurs with the feet and ankles. Not sure how hip CA would have any impact on that. If however you are using some knee to add to tipping, I can see how potential hip CA could limit that.

I will also say that the guy or guys you did camps with have learned the bulk of their stuff from Harald, either directly or through his books and videos. I have never once heard Harald say that CA limits tipping. I have heard him say that adding CA to tipping increases edge angles. And again the goal is higher edge angles.

[jbotti]

In re-reading your post, you mention stance leg tipping more than once. The stance leg follows the non stance leg which is where all the tipping occurs. The biggest impediment to higher edge angles on the stance ski, is an inability to tip the inside ski further. Seems like the focus is on the wrong thing. I never once think about increasing my stance leg tipping. If I want higher edge angles I focus on increasing my LTE tipping of the non stance leg and on flexing the inside leg further creating room for the stance leg to go to higher edge angles. This is how Harald skis and its what he teaches.

[go_large_or_go_home]

Thanks for the reply…

Completely agree that tipping is initiated with the inside foot and that the stance leg follows…that is a PMTS fundamental..however, my question relates to how do you get increased tipping angles when CA washes out the tipping on the stance leg? Once you have transferred your weight onto the stance leg, you can tip all you want with the free foot, but if your tipping range is being blocked and ultimately reversed by hip CA, what do you do?

The more you CA with the hips, the less tipping angles you can achieve with the stance foot…

This is not the video that I was shown, but it is close…you can see how Richi is driving his stance foot hip into the turn….the net result is that at the end of the turn, his hips & shoulders are all square to his skis…

https://youtu.be/4Y5XweoNO4Y?si=prQUVGKGPp1Z2zGa

https://youtu.be/bQv0Nra4dwY?si=F2QgZUE_S5sN_X2j

Not trying stir the proverbial hornets nest, but the difference this made to my skiing was profound. All the other fundamentals just slotted into place…

The ‘holy cow’ exercise was to try and actively rotate your body as much as possible into the turn from release…the grip achieved was off the charts…despite it feeling funky to me - to the observer, it looked ‘normal’…

With the movement refined, my ability to tip and keep tipping just happened automatically…

[jbotti]

Lets keep one thing clear, in PMTS we teach and use CA. We can go beyond that and look at every WC skier and look at how much CA they use in every turn, and they are getting very high edge angles. In speaking with Harald on this he mentioned that those that are not softening their stance leg and are getting extension on that leg, the CA will limit tipping. But that isn't PMTS skiing.

Now if we go back to the topic before it got hijacked, you can add looking at how much CA is used in every turn when anyone goes to watch WC skiers to see hw much they tip.

[jbotti]

I think we have an audience of around 8-10 but I'll keep posting as I discover things.

Back to tipping, Diana thinks of it as dramatically increasing ones tipping just before the apex (on flatter terrain) and just beyond it (on steeper terrain). Harald describes it as progressively increasing tipping where you are maxing either just before the apex or just past the apex. Whichever way gives one the best mental image is the one to use.

I have been working this hard the past several ski days and it IS A GAME CHANGER!! Knowing that you can tighten any arc at any time is beyond cool, it makes for tighter arcs and way better speed control.

And as I have been skiing the past few days, I have been very focused on the 3 things Harald has been saying to me for years.

1. Keep your pole baskets in front of your boots all the time. never let them fall back behind the boot
2. Use aggressive free foot (or both feet if possible) pullback in every arc
3. Progressively increase tipping throughout the arc (or uses Diana's description if it works better).

Putting all 3 of these in place makes for some great and super fun skiing. And they all feed off each other. For me, as I have been tightening the arc, I am going for the tightest arcs possible, so its made me have to massively pullback at the top of every arc. But when I do this, keep the baskets in front and add tipping just before or after the apex, Holy Shit!! I must add that all this is made possible by those amazing blue skis I am skiing!

Everyone has a list of things they are working on. But I guarantee if you put these 3 in place with the goal of maxxing each in every arc, you will see a huge result!

[DCM]

You mentioned keeping the pole baskets in front of the boots all the time. However, what I've noticed in videos of HH and other expert skiers like Richie Berger is that they let the inside pole tip drag on the snow behind the boots. Isn't that a contradiction or am I missing something here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbzGGBOf1UY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUCfn74GbVY

[jbotti]

Harald's skiing has evolved over the years. In this video the poles stay in front:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dtBzr6_mVY

So can you ski well with the baskets falling behind, yes of course. But everyone will ski better with them forward.

[spinbackwards]

Wow, great timing.

A friend who follows PMTS (I'll get him to post some vids) and has had race training turned me onto a new tip that's paying off. He gets great angles. If there's someone better all-mountain at the Beav I haven't seen them.

I asked him about tipping. He said he focuses on pressing his ankle bone against the boot. He said he doesn't even think about the big toe stance foot, it just comes along. I worked on that today. I was like, whoa! I was getting better angles than ever. And yes for me, same experience with the big toe stance foot - I wasn't thinking about it, it just came along.

I called him this afternoon, psyched. He mentioned that HH brought up the importance of ankles in the long form interview he did with Peter (I forget his last name).

I wonder if anyone else here thinks about pressing their ankle bone against the boot?

[jbotti]

Diana, many years ago told me to try and plant my outside ankle onto the snow when tipping and going for high edge angles. I use that visual as well as the the feeling of pressing my ankle bone against the boot. When you watch WC racers, this exactly what they do.

[tigernbr]

That's a good visual. I'll try to do that in camp in a few weeks. Tipping is something I really want to focus on.

[h.harb]

Lateral foot movements are the way to create angles. We have taught this since the beginning of PMTS. We have a ski shop where we make sure people have access to these movements. The boots play a big role in tipping ability. Many skiers have their feet locked up due to the side pressure pushing against the medial ankle from the boots.

As far as the discussion about pole use and keeping the pole tips ahead of the boots. I created the no-swing pole tap about 10 years ago. The idea was to stop finishing turns with a squared upper body to the skis. The other benefit is to calm down upper body leaning and make people aware of their upper body movements. This has worked tremendously in stopping people from using the upper body and torso to turn and rotate. Taming this pole use isn't an overnight achievement, I focus on it in my skiing almost every run. When skiing difficult terrain or aggressively, sure it goes away sometimes, but never to the point where it unsettles or loses a turn.